Corrupt house management -- How to verify?

[GoGirl]

Can anyone kindly recommend an official Municiple address in Alanya that can verify that our house management is legal and entitled to collect fees from its residents? And whether the request may be done in English?

I bought an apartment in Alanya in 2006. The constructor did not complete his obligations and my apartment was delivered in 2008 with many flaws that were never rectified. I learned to just accept this. From my understanding, it is the constructor and his friends that have monopoly and majority vote in a house management which I do not acknowledge. The constructor has probably only sold less than half of the apartments and therefore ran out of money. He is still in business. Only 2-3 apartments out of 35 are used all year in our apartment complex.

The high management prices are not the only concern (and ironically the least..). In the beginning, I paid "everyone" no questions asked. The problems started when I tried to create a budget so I could see what my money was going to. It came to my attention that it was an impossible task because neither the danish real estate company, nor the present so called house management would or could produce receipts of past payments. They continuously asked for payments for "items" that I knew I had paid for before. I started demanding receipts. it seems that I will never know what I paid for but I will do my best not to let this happen to me again.

Few, if any, are notified when the informal pool meetings take place. Most of the foreign residents lack the necessary information to make judgements as to whether the house management is being run by criminals or whether the criminals are those, like me, that refuse to pay. They are, like me, afraid of being persecuted. I have contacted a local solicitor that has advised me to pay a symbolic amount to the house management rather than what is being asked and I did--about half of what they want. I am not allowed copies of the "Turkish house management" documents (house plans, minuts of meetings). I am told that I am not entitled to any receipts of payment. We are many that would like to pay but not to a corrupt house management. I was informed of the complex house management rules by a german woman that had been in the house management business for several years.

I would like "closure" and would prefer to be ordered to pay by the court. You see, I believe, that our building is deteriorating from lack of good property management. Now there is also this Updating of the deed (Tapu) which is again completely out of our hands. I can assure you that our constructor has no intention of doing what is needed. I understand that he must update all of our tapus at once. How can we foreigners enforce this? For two years all communication has been futile. It seems that everyone else has either stopped paying or just pays and shuts up :-(. Very sad.

For all I know, I may risk loosing the flat, going to jail or at least I risk a major fine. I do not dare return to Turkey and I cannot even sell the apartment without the new "updated deed".

So many have told me that going to court is a waste of time and money. Any advise would be gratefully appreciated.

[RIK]

Go Girl.Have a look at my earlier post in ' Kat Itifirki ' you may find that you some more time.As for the rest of your post it sounds very difficult for you and I wish you the best in trying to sort it out.One thing I would say is that all Sitesi's and Apartment Blocks that have reasonable management will issue you with a receipt for all payments made.Turkey is no different in this respect.Maybe the builder is trying to take advantage of you because you are a woman.Make sure that your avokat is up to the job. Good Luck.

Ian

[mikep]

GoGirl,
Would you mind telling me how much the complex management fees are?
I have appt also in Alanya area run by a Danish firm who seem very expensive (Euro 925 every 6 months).
Rgds
Mike.

[MISSC2000]

Hi Go Girl - we are in a similar predicament No Hab Cert - the management (developers ) resigned because the owners started to ask question about where the money goes - there were no accounts and the accounts we did have had shooping, charcol and all sorts on,. which left us with no management - we then hired Royal Home Service ... well what can I say they were expensive , didnt really deliver despite complaints , we got rid of them last month as they were "allegedly" caught stealing the swimming pool water pump amongst a few other things- also when they took over we had a spate of burglaries, maybe just coincidence. So back to square one

If you are not happy cannot all the owners get together and get rid? Also check with the local council - the worrying thing is to find out if there are any debts against the properties from the developer.

All I can say is i feel your frustration, but it seems there is some good support on here... the council address should be on the link below

alanya.bel.tr

Good luck

C

[GoGirl]

Mike,
I paid 600 Euros the first year. I had stupidly signed a contract but it was valid for only one year. Later I learned that I was under no obligation to sign any contract. Of course by Turkish law you are obligated to have a house management. When my solicitor informed me that I was being scammed, 2-3 individuals created a house management (not by the book obviously). Now house management can select a company and force you to accept the decisions made by this minority in the name of the residents.

If no one shows up to the General Assembly, these jokers can say "No one showed up to vote so I pick my buddy who will give me a BIG fat commission. I can raise the price anytime I want."

You cannot vote if you do not get invited and no one enforces the law that says that you have to send a letter through registered mail. House management should give the residents the right to object to the decisions that are made..in short the laws look like the rest of Europe but the Turks say "This is Turkey... "

Do the math. How many turks can afford 600-900 Euros a year?
Anyway, my neighbors all pay different prices. It's a bazaar. This year I paid 300 Euros. This year who knows? Another thing the prices are in TL why are we paying in Euros? Who pockets the gains when the lire falls against the Euro?

The accounting books were looked at by "someone" who claims to know about the prices of things and she assured me that any court would be able to unveil their misconduct. However, since we have a silent majority, it's a daunting task for 1 or two apartments. It's been two years and not much happens. I believe complaints need to be done in Turkish. You should live there and have lots of patience and time. I have paid more in lawyer fees than if I had just paid every year the 600 Euros so the joke is on me. I am sure that some turks out there find it just as unsufferable as we do. I don't take anything personal. It is very sad that we place more trust in the danes. They behave down there in ways they would never attempt here at home, I guess. If the laws are not enforced, protection comes at a price :-)

[RIK]

We pay 55 TL every month for rubbish to be taken, garden taken care of and a swimming pool.It's cheap but not overly cheap.I do think that you guys are being ripped off.

Ian

[mikep]

It is also Royal Home Service who manage our complex.
They are a Danish set up (95% of appt's are owned by Danes).
I would be interested to hear if any other members have any experience of dealing with this firm?

[shirleyanntr]

Originally Posted by mikep

GoGirl,
Would you mind telling me how much the complex management fees are?
I have appt also in Alanya area run by a Danish firm who seem very expensive (Euro 925 every 6 months).
Rgds
Mike.

hi Mike 925 euros thats 2000 tl every 6 months..if thats right its crazy money..unless you are living in an ultra luxurious place
anyway why are people paying in euro the currency here is Turkish lira.

The above posts by Gogirl and miss2000 are dreadful , something is seriously wrong with the management in both places..are you on the same apartment block.
You should have a copy of the management meetings a breakdown of expenses etc.
İ wonder if the Belediye should be informed and see whats going on.

[mikep]

Hi Shirley,

It's a block of 45 in Demirtas - it's nice and well maintained but not extra luxurious - pool , gardens, sauna, gym, hamman.

Has 3 staff - caretaker, night watchman & gardener.

I've a good mind not to pay the next instalment due in July. Can the committee force us tp pay?

[les&Tasha]

GoGirl,

1, To my knowledge there is no Belediye agency which supervises the operation of building management.

2, You need to collect the votes of a majority of the residents to change the building management. If more than half of the apartments are unsold then there is no chance of displacing the developer as the defacto management agent.

3. Management companies have to keep accounts by law and as a member you have a legal right to inspect these accounts. Simple as that. Go to an Avokat get a letter written stating that you will pay no more than a nominal service charge (say 50TL per month) until you are allowed to inspect the accounts. Mention that you expect to see the same charges being levied and paid by every apartment - including the unsold ones... Also state that you are only responsible for your % of reasonable disbursements. A Turkish court is the final arbiter on what constitutes a reasonable disbursement and state that you don't mind going to court. Get the letter Notarized and delivered by hand to an official of the management company. This will very likely end your service charge problem. You will pay TL50 a month and the management company will continue as it is. Practically there is not much more that you can do.

4. In my opinion you will not be able to solve the Tapu problem. A prerequisite is the developer paying his taxes and from what you have posted so far this does not look likely. Don't worry about this. If and when you get a threatening letter from the government take it to an Avokat get a letter written to the developer demanding he meet his obligations as you are unable to comply until he does so. Notarized and legally delivered to the developer and the authorities.

5. The next stage in this saga might well be the developer letting out the unsold units at low rents (200 Euro a month). You might not want to live in the building after the new tenants move in!

6. Of course you can return to Turkey. All of this is a civil matter! You must start sticking up for yourself! There are many people in the Alanya area in your situation. You have 3 options; Sell, rent or live there yourself. You can always sell an apartment In this situation the price is likely to be around 10x the annual rent, Euro 25,000 - probably a lot less than you paid. You can rent and wait for time to solve this situation. You get some income and in 5 years time the situation may be redeemable. Only you can decide if you want to live in the apartment.

This is not good news but I hope it will clear your mind.