re. Property scams

[carolk]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Perhaps CarolK should send the journalist her petition - and ask her to follow it up

I have done, I sent it before and have sent it again. I have lost count of the publications and MP's MEP's etc I have sent it to.

[Terry the Celt]

quote
at the end of the day the solution is to name and shame

too often people complain but are afraid (reluctant) to name the guilty parties.

Totally agree
Rumours can float around and do nothing!!
A list is needed

[carolk]

Originally Posted by yalimart

in the uk

• Regulates the conduct of estate agents in the course of estate agency work (buying and selling, but not letting).
• Lays down the duties that agents owe to clients (such as the passing on of offers, handling money and giving details of charges) and to third parties (such as disclosure of a personal interest).
• Gives the Office of Fair Trading the power to issue warning or prohibition notices against those persons whom it considers to be unfit to carry on estate agency work. Any person that receives a prohibition notice (a ‘banning order’) will not be able to practise as an estate agent.

Estate agents also have to comply with the Property Misdescriptions Act 1991, which makes it an offence to make false or misleading statements about property offered for sale.

not sure about turkey

martin

I have been looking into this today and as far as I can tell, there is no actual governing body, you have to sue them/the agent/builder (they see it as a personal issue) as people are doing - look where that gets everyone!!

[yalimart]

you do mean in Turkey Carol ?

martin

[JohnF]

Originally Posted by Martyn

I think the only reason we don't these sorts of problems in the uk is because solicitors are involved.

No, I don't think that's the reason Martyn - I suspect it has more to do with the fact that in the U.K. (generally speaking) funds are not released until the property is actually "sold".

We've been buying and selling property in Turkey for nearly ten years now and have never used a solicitor. Traditionally, domestic conveyancing in Turkey was always done by the emlak; a few years ago a Turkish solicitor wouldn't have had a clue as to where to start with a house purchase!

In my opinion, it was the large influx of European (mostly British & Irish) purchasers appearing on the scene all wanting to do it "same as at home" and the agents and developers were only too happy to oblige and put them in touch with solicitors. In these early days, the solicitors really hadn't a clue hence the problems many are having now. When you also take into account the fact that most Turkish solicitors will do only what you instruct them to do, nothing more, nothing less, then if you (the purchaser) don't tell them to take certain precautions or place safeguards on your money, then they wont.

JF

[carolk]

Originally Posted by yalimart

you do mean in Turkey Carol ?

martin

Yes Martin.

I think the above post by JohnF is correct. Turkish people didnt need a solicitor because its done on the same day. No cash, no Tapu! I think here its quite unrealistic to think a solicitor will protect your interests unfortunately.

[Terry the Celt]

Very interesting post JohnF

quote
We've been buying and selling property in Turkey for nearly ten years now and have never used a solicitor. Traditionally, domestic conveyancing in Turkey was always done by the emlak; a few years ago a Turkish solicitor wouldn't have had a clue as to where to start with a house purchase!


Basically then unless you tell a solicitor in Turkey EXACTLY what you need and want, its no better or more secure than just letting the Emlak do it.
In the UK they know what to do and are experienced in conveyancing but in Turkey they are still learning!!
In the UK you just throw it all at the solicitor and he gets on with it and KNOWS how to protect your interests!!

If I have understood it right then all those people saying "You should have used a solicitor so its your own fault it went wrong" should eat humble pie!!

Am I correct in thinking that as the question "Oh thats very sad but did you use a solicitor?" has come up so many times in the 5 years I have been here!!!
We now find as many have done that it IS the Emlaks who had the experience to do it, NOT the solicitors.

Thank you John
Thats the most illuminating post on the subject for years!!

[JohnF]

Originally Posted by Terry the Celt

If I have understood it right then all those people saying "You should have used a solicitor so its your own fault it went wrong" should eat humble pie!!

As I see it, there is very little a solicitor could have done to prevent some of the fraudulent transactions that have taken place. And I do mean the out and out frauds such as the villas in Bodrum sold two and three times over.

I believe the majority of problems coming to the surface now did not start of as scams or conspiracies to fleece the foreigners - they are the result of poor financial management and a lack of foresight by builders/developers who, when presented with an easy way to relieve cashflow issues, raised the money by borrowing against the value of the development.

Very few Turkish developers provide bank guarantees and, when the sh1t hits the fan, appear to be adept at concealing seizable assets. If a developer goes bust owing banks (secured debts) and customers (unsecured debts), it doesn't matter how good your sales contract is, you are going to get 100% of bugger all. So again, there isn't much to be gained by having used a solicitor.

Am I correct in thinking that as the question "Oh thats very sad but did you use a solicitor?" has come up so many times in the 5 years I have been here!!! We now find as many have done that it IS the Emlaks who had the experience to do it, NOT the solicitors.

Its only my opinion, albeit backed up by a good number of years experience buying and selling Turkish properties, but I would never consider using a solicitor - I have several very good agents who have proved trustworthy over the years. A few members on here have also used one of them in Fethiye and other being a bit grumpy at times, she's never let them down.

JF

[tintagel]

Originally Posted by JohnF

No, I don't think that's the reason Martyn - I suspect it has more to do with the fact that in the U.K. (generally speaking) funds are not released until the property is actually "sold".

We've been buying and selling property in Turkey for nearly ten years now and have never used a solicitor. Traditionally, domestic conveyancing in Turkey was always done by the emlak; a few years ago a Turkish solicitor wouldn't have had a clue as to where to start with a house purchase!

In my opinion, it was the large influx of European (mostly British & Irish) purchasers appearing on the scene all wanting to do it "same as at home" and the agents and developers were only too happy to oblige and put them in touch with solicitors. In these early days, the solicitors really hadn't a clue hence the problems many are having now. When you also take into account the fact that most Turkish solicitors will do only what you instruct them to do, nothing more, nothing less, then if you (the purchaser) don't tell them to take certain precautions or place safeguards on your money, then they wont.

JF

Some very goods points John. Another point that I have been thinking/questioning for sometime now is "just how competent, are these advocats?"

From very shambolic results I have experienced & heard of, it does seem that many of them are taking on cases that are way beyond their area of 'expertise' or 'capabilities'....?

Thanks to the ridiculous buying proceedures in Turkey (military clearance etc), the victims of property frauds & the greedy, are such an easy, lucrative Cash Cow, handing them riches beyond their wildest dreams.

With no official 'come-back' from their governing bodies (Turkish Bar Assoc etc), they are free to make whatever claims they like, make bad situations worse etc.

In my own personal experience, even when they are asked to check-out paper-work, debts etc, they nod, agree & do nothing............ If they didn't insist on being paid 'up-front' the client would have some leverage, sadly, they now have such a terribly poor reputation & record, that when they don't ask for payment up-front, you really should ask yourself WHY??

[jewel]

Just read on another forum that the SFS (serious fraud squad) are wanting to investigate property scams and dubious loans in Bulgaria,Turkey.Cyprus and Italy....apparently they are interested in any Company that has a British director or a british citizen involved with the scams especially if they operate out of offices here in UK . jewel x