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Old 27th February 2019, 23:54   #21 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

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Originally Posted by Bramidan View Post
Chips, as a retired Chartered Surveyor formerly specialising in valuation let me assure that the UK property market is not immune, the bigger the numbers etc etc
Valuations for proposed developments, be it a residential development or commercial development, by their very nature, are based on the plans in order to raise the finance in order to actually build out the project.
In the UK to raise finance on property a valuation has to be made by a qualified Chartered Surveyor, there have been bent ones, usually sued by the banks when it goes wrong and if fraud they end up facing the penalties.
The Turkish property market is, as those of us who have purchased know, largely unregulated.
When I first purchased I regularly had the 3 a.m sweats!
As I said before it looks like the Government are taking steps to try and regulate the industry and to be fair they need to start somewhere.
Incidentally, an outline of what is now proposed was published back in 2013, I still have it somewhere!
I donít doubt the merits of it re tax but Turkey is somewhat different depending on region.
Two things I will point out.
I built in Akbuk, like anyone I wanted the villa built to the max or more even. The builder & architect told me, if in Didim, I could give a bung over & get the extra build but no chance with Akbuk Belidye.
I was in Didims Belidyes office in Didim with my architect some months later over another project, I was an onlooker because it was all in Turkish. Next thing the architect stormed out. Iím left on my own, got up, shook the Belidyes hand & done one. Found out off the architect the Belidye had put the cosh on him to buy his son a car to get the project signed off...... no project, no car.
Over the years I learnt plenty, itís bent from top to bottom. Donít forget, nine times out of ten itís the agents & builders fiddling the tax, not the foreign buyers, most of the time theyíre just led along, be there be here, sign there, sign here.
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Old 28th February 2019, 07:31   #22 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

Bramidan I have no intention of disputing your case for Britain, you state you were a Chartered Surveyor. Therein lies the rub, there is nothing or no one Chartered here in Turkey. They hold Turkish qualifications which are mimicking Western values and they have diplomas hanging on their walls...... there has been a scam exposed here just recently where graduates have had their dissertations written by ghost writers.
Getting back to the theme of the thread and the suggestion that this legislation is to protect foreigners. This is a tax being levied on a certain section of outsiders wishing to buy property here, have you asked yourself why this is not aimed at Turks as well.....
This local election is turning out to be the most expensive in recent history at a time when the cupboard is empty.
The most valuable asset of foreigners here is local knowledge,
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Old 28th February 2019, 08:39   #23 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

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Originally Posted by bashful View Post
The tax is payable in line with the Belediye valuation.
It is the same for all properties, I am constantly reading on these forums that is illegal not to declare the sale value.... or should I say the purchase price paid. It is only when a bank mortgage forms part of the deal that the full price is recorded on the tapu, this is to protect the bank only !
Firstly, That first statement is incorrect.

The Belediye put a valuation on the 'No Debt' certificate which is akin to the old 'Property Banding' valuation in Britain back when Poll Tax was introduced.

That valuation is the 'minimum' value that can be shown on the Tapu to be produced for the new Buyer. A higher value is normally shown after a short discussion between buyer, seller, emlak dealing with the sale and the Tapu Office Manager when the paperwork is submitted to complete the sale.
In days gone by, that value could be anything from just 10% above the Belediye's valuation to the full sale price if the buyer wanted it that way.
Just this week, we've put 2 sales through the Tapu Office, in both cases, the values on the New Tapu were about 30% above the Belediye's valuation.
Both sales to Europeans and both figures agreed between themselves and the Tapu Office Manager.

From Monday onwards the new law will require the new Property Valuation Certificate to be obtained and will be valid for 3 months from date of issue so that if a sale goes 'pear shaped' with one problem or another, or one party pulls out, it allows time to iron out the problems or even use the same certificate for another buyer.

Valuations to be shown on the new Tapu will still remain negotiable.

We're extremely lucky here in Side because the Manavgat Tapu Office Manager who left that department last year is now responsible at the new Government department for issuing these Property Valuation Certificates. Over the last 12 years, he's put an endless ammount of our sales through Manavgat Tapu Office, we know him well and he's extremely approachable and always willing to help.

Admitedly he's got no English but he's available for people to call him if they wish.

His name is Şenol Yılmaz, e.mail: [email protected]

We're all going to be on a 'learning curve' for a while as we get to put our next sales through. We have one due to complete on March 19th to another European buyer so, fingers crossed, all will be well.

I've seen many changes in various laws during my working years here and in all fairness, 'Fear of the Unknown' sets in initially, only to be replaced by, 'Well, that wasn't so bad'!

All things being equal, providing we don't lose our buyer, I can let you know how we go on in about 3 weeks time. No panic!!
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Old 28th February 2019, 09:10   #24 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

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Firstly, That first statement is incorrect.
I and many others here know that you are involved in the property market, running jumble sales and looking after the needs of stray cats in your area and you should be familiar with how it all works here. After five property purchases and three property sales here I too know a little of what goes on here. Basicly the only question the Tapu officer asks the seller is 'did you get your money?' When the Tapu office hand over the Tapu they take signatures from both the seller and buyer, the Tapu has already been prepared beforehand and the taxable value is already printed on the Tapu.
I have never known of a situation where the seller will sit and negotiate the figure upwards so that he then pays more tax !
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Old 28th February 2019, 11:54   #25 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

One thing not mentioned above is the capital gains tax (CGT) liability as it relates to foreigners. Any UK second homer is liable for CGT on the net profits regardless of the length of ownership unless they have left the UK permanently and the Turkish property is the main residence, which is currently exempt for UK CGT rules.

The 5 year CGT rule doesn't apply to a UK taxpayer but any CG tax paid in TC would be offset against a UK liability.

If a lower (incorrect) tapu price is the only legal reference there could be a higher taxable profit when you sell. Rules change and IT enables a tighter control for the future.

Regardless of any tapu entry we have always insisted on the seller signing a formal receipt for the correct amount of the sale, and had it witnessed by the emlak with his business stamp.
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Old 28th February 2019, 12:44   #26 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

Good point Kanga but this is not the issue. What the op was pointing out was the so called new legislation regarding foreigners buying property here and then the suggestion that this move was to protect foreign buyers from being twisted. The government brought in a measure that would give less than legal properties an işkan. Many of these properties have just been shoe-horned into an işkan. Anyone watching Turkish TV will have seen all the dreadful flooding here in towns, cities and villages. Followed by collapsing buildings, many of them covered with a brand new işkan. If this real estate appraisal report is to have any value at all, most of the propeties that foreigners fork out all this money for will fail to come up to standard and foreigners are going to spend a lot of time and money finding something buyable. See it for what it is
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Old 28th February 2019, 13:15   #27 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

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Originally Posted by bashful View Post
I and many others here know that you are involved in the property market, running jumble sales and looking after the needs of stray cats in your area and you should be familiar with how it all works here. After five property purchases and three property sales here I too know a little of what goes on here. Basicly the only question the Tapu officer asks the seller is 'did you get your money?' When the Tapu office hand over the Tapu they take signatures from both the seller and buyer, the Tapu has already been prepared beforehand and the taxable value is already printed on the Tapu.
I have never known of a situation where the seller will sit and negotiate the figure upwards so that he then pays more tax !
I'm not here to argue with you but, having put in excess of 300 properties through the Tapu Offices in Manavgat and Kuşadası over the last 12 year period, I know a little of what I'm talking about.
The Tapu is certainly prepared for when all parties concerned return to the Tapu Office for the Completion of Sale. That's why all relevent paperwork is submitted in the morning and that's the time, and it's every time for our customers that the value to be shown on the New Tapu is discussed and agreed.
However you chose to deal with your sales is quite clearly not the way we deal with the work for our customers, Turk or Non-Turk. We're here to do our best for them and so we will continue.

The jumble sale comment made me smile. I've never done a jumble sale in Turkey, don't think I've seen one and I've been here full-time 23 years. I was first here back in 1971 and I don't remember seeing then or during my many visits here before settling permanently.

As you say, I should be familiar with the way things work here. If you knew me at all, you'd actually know that I am. Please don't try winding me up with such ridiculous remarks, you're wasting your time.
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Old 28th February 2019, 13:28   #28 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

I respect your position here in Turkey and no doubt you have worked hard to get things right. You made your point from your point of view but you failed to elaborate where I was wrong as you stated in your post #23.
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Old 28th February 2019, 13:47   #29 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

I think it's time to move on chaps
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Old 28th February 2019, 13:48   #30 (permalink)
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Re: New property valuations for foreign buyers

One day people might grasp that the signing in the Tapu Office is THE CONTRACT, Turk on Turk don't do contracts or lawyers because they know where the business end is.
Plenty of people on here have said they had a contract, in some cases even Notarised & went onto get stung.
Quite rightly pointed out by OP, you're asked in the Tapu Office if you have received your monies? If you answered no, you would quite rightly be advised not to sign, never mind what side deals are going on............you DO NOT SIGN because you've just agreed that the contract has been fulfilled.
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