BernardMatthews

Mustaq,
For clarity I was not referring to variations of contract over incidentals. We should distinguish between items that may be varied and those which are optionals. A variation may be an upgrade of oven ,or the inclusion of something not covered in the literature. The oven is stated to be included by the literature ,but an upgrade and cost of same would not be and if required should be added to the sales contract.That's just an example of a variation.

By contrast if an item is an optional item then it should be marked as such in the literature ,or should not be there at all in which case it would become a variation to contract. That is ,if you want it you pay extra for it. On the literature seen to date Mosquito nets are not marked as "optional" and IF ,I say IF , your reply was to suggest that making the literature reflect the terms of contract is unimportant because each sales contract may be varied then I would suggest you create a rod for your own back because each contract should then stipulate that items mentioned in the literature are not included otherwise the buyer as a right to expect them. That would be a completely nonsensical way to approach a contract .

What should not be varied at all is that if you should present a sales brochure to a buyer identifying something to be "Luxury" you have no right at all to vary that unless you do so by explicitly adjusting it in the contract. I have a hard time envisaging a sales contract that states "this property is not of Luxury standard anymore so we are adjusting the price for that" and yet that would have to be the case ,because if it was not then all you have done is "Entice someone into a contract with a promise" for which he has provided full consideration (payment).
I fully understand that what I am saying is based upon how this would be dealt with in the UK and of course this is not the UK ,it is Turkey. More reason for people to understand the difficulties in cross border investment where they do not understand the laws that apply ,or do not apply.

Out of interest is this what happened ? This developement was conceived in a certain way a few years back and the market and cost model moved against the developer to the point where he had to change horses in terms of it's end usage ? That is ,did it move from some high end concept to a balance sheet driven let's get money moving and rent it to students? I could understand this ,I could , I know intimately how the property market has moved and indeed more lately how lines of credit and credit availability have changed for builders leading to desperate manouvering. Is this what we have here ? A punter caught out by the aforementioned ?

By the way I was in bespoke off plan as a property contractor for 20 odd years ,I know how it works.

shirleyanntr

i cant see why having students in the vicinity..nor renting out to them should make a place less of a 'Luxury'..i
Because İ owned a luxury apartment in a complex that doesnt give me the right to say to who my neighbours should or shouldnt rent their similar 'luxury ' apartment.

BernardMatthews

Shirley ,it is mispresentation ,or should I say it is a case to be argued as misrepresentation. The term "Luxury" implies a premium in the price. I can conceive of no rational for suggesting that "luxury" and student accommodation could be used together. Drop the term "Luxury" and drop the premium price accordingly and of course there is no such issue.

Let me put it this way. In contractual disputes. The documented evidence comes first and overrides verbal agreements. The second test applied is to look at what documentary evidence is available and ask what a "reasonable man" would make of it.
So in this case it might go something like this. "Would a reasonable man riding on the back of double decker bus in Clapham believe that he was contracting to buy a property intended for possible use as student accommodation when it was described and priced to be of Luxury finish and appointment".
Shirley we can argue about that until the cows come home ,but my money says no he couldn't have known that from the documents that formed part of his contract and if that is correct then he would have been subject to misrepresentation.
For a balanced view I would also say that if I had looked at "Luxury" and then right below it on the link ad "adjacent to the University of Abbuk" I would have run for the hills ,but I suspect I have more experience than Mike P. In a Uk court they would presume him to be layman and as such should not have to make any such qualititative judgements ,that is the professionals should have ben clear and explicit in the way they dealt with him.At this point it does not look that way to me. It is however unclear to me actually who is renting all of this property out to students. At this moment I am assuming ,perhaps incorrectly , that the builder/devloper owns unsold lots and has opted to rent same to students thereby creating this ambiguous situation. If however this is a case of multiple other owners opting to use and then rent these apartments out to students then it becomes at least in my mind less of an issue for the developer although I imagine the lack of caveats in the site ownership rules is then the issue.

mushtaq

From my experience in Turkey, it works like this;

The builder draws up plans and specifications for projects and offers it to agents with details of the project and prices etc.

We as the agent will then market the project with the details provided by the developer, if and when we get enquiries from a potential buyer we then confirm exactly what units are available and the current prices, along with what is included what is optional, during the time we get the details from developer and the time we have an interested buyer lot can and does change, this includes specifications delivery dates, prices availability etc. etc.

So when the buyer is negotiating the purchase he should have been made aware (this is what we do) of what he is buying, i.e. what facilities will be available who will be responsible for maintenance of these, what fixtures are to be included and will be fitted as standard.

As I said before we were not involved in this sale and don't know what Mike was told and what documents he looked at to make his mind up, but looking at the details on site, you can see they are very brief and we would normally provide more detailed information to clients after confirming with the developer of the current state of the project when we get an enquiry.

Vassago

BM you say you are a professional but you miss a thing, the mosquito nets are not in our agreement with Mike, there were not any verbal promises that I didn't kept.
This is an item that is extra and he can get a quote if he wants them. It is the home owners choice of renting out their property to students or somebody else. That is something that the builder cannot mix himself.
There is not any misrepresentation like you insist on saying. I said exactly;
''The apartment could be rent out to students or to teachers.''
I never said 6 students will live in an apartment (as the agreement with them allows max. 3 persons in total)
Another thing that you miss is, MikeP has asked me to rent his apartment to students. Later I see on this forum that he was forced to rent out his property. Are the laws in the UK only protecting the buyer and not the seller?
MikeP's post caused many problems to me as they don't have any connection with true events. I wanted to explain this with the witness of the holiday makers in Karia Residence but suddenly carolk claimd that I was doing tactics.
I am a person who is keeping all the promises that he gaves but noone can ask me for anything that I didnt promise.
Mike is just moaning about something that he cannot explain.
Today I had a meeting with the students at the residence and ofcourse I explained them the conversation that we are having in this forum. Funny that they also complain about MikeP (like he was shouting all the time and doesn't take his waste bins to the trash-can outside the complex)
Once more I want to make it clear to everyone on this forum;
Nobody can violate the complex rules in Karia Residence. There may be not written rules but everybody has to be aware about the standarts living together in a community.
Don't mix the Turkish University students with the student profiles in your own country. Their parents are always informed about everything that happens in the complex.
Does my defence makes MikeP an angel? Do you really think this type of conversation should be held in such forums without thinking about their impact on other peoples lifes?

Vassago

Another wrong information that MikeP gave, there are not 50/60 studentsin Karia Residence. The exact number is 17. These 17 students are living in 10 apartments. There are also 2 teachers living in Karia Residence without having any problems.

maggie

My 2 penny worth for what its worth.

There seems to be some disstortion of the truth here.

I think before people jump onto the bandwagon starting to blame first Mike then Vasagoo.

The true facts should be brought to light Im not taking any bodys side here but stating 50 or 60 students is a bit different to the 17 that Vasagoo states are living there.

Personally I cant see that 17 students and a couple of teachers are going to make a huge difference to the place.

Mike also states he had nowhere to eat ,socialize, etc but surely he knew that when he first thought about moving to Fevishpasha.

As Karia is still a building site I dont know if any facilities were due to be built on the complex .If so would there not be some sort of completion date for these to be finished.

I said Im not taking sides here but I do believe that Mike you maybe should have done your home work a little better before moving to the area.I do not believe Vasagoo can be held totally responsible for everything you are finding fault with.

Hugs Maggie xxxxx

BernardMatthews

I have not missed much at all ,but what I read as to 'facts' are as likely to be correct or incorrect regardless of the poster. You or Mike P. If you reread my posts and if you understand English well enough to comprehend the nuances theirin I have said the 'facts' garbled between you are unlikely to be proveable either way and this is very typical of contractual disputes.
As to mosquito nets ,to me they look peripheral to this entire issue ,but if you put them in your literature without specifying they are a chargeable optional extra you again give room for disagreement to take place.
Finally the marketing of a development on the grounds that it is a luxury development is simply at odds with a subsequent usage for student accommodation although it now appears possible that this may be simply the way current owners have chosen to use their assets. If so that is their choice/right and if Mike P does not like or appreciate that then he should not have bought without having in place a communal agreement that prevented same.

I've now said all I wish to on this subject as it is simply one more balls up amongst many that is a typical outcome when you get amateurs involved in doing what a professional should be doing.However ,this is probably as good a definition as you're going to get of what causes a 'bubble'. In this case, property ,as we know ,anyone can do it ,can't they ?! Enough from me.