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Old 17th March 2016, 14:57   #11 (permalink)
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Re: British Tourist fighting for life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bickern View Post
Nothing to do with him being a Yabanci in my opinion, just judges taking on board what they do in UK and wherever. It appals me the soft sentences sometimes meted out in the UK to people that at a minimum should have got at least 10 years.
Lol, please re-read your comment and tell me you're joking.

Turkish judges don't take on board what other countries do during the summation and sentencing process. It may surprise you to learn that Turkey has it's own legal system and judges have to work within the penal code; they don't pull sentences out of thin air by 'taking on board' what other countries do.

I also find some sentences in the UK shocking, but not as shocking as the sentences I've seen handed down in Turkey recently:

Two students sentenced to 7 years for unfurling a banner asking for free education during a speech by Erdogan.
Two women sentenced to 9 years in prison for grooming a 13 year old girl while the paedophiles received between 2 months and 5 years for 'good behaviour' and because the judges decided the 13 year old girl 'consented'.
A 13 year old child imprisoned for 3 months for throwing stones at security forces during a protest in the South East (no injuries).

Turkey has two children's education houses and a juvenile closed prison. There are over 2,400 children in prison in Turkey.




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Old 18th March 2016, 14:40   #12 (permalink)
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Re: British Tourist fighting for life.

Women face up to 10 years in prison for ?abetting suicide? - CRIME

A fair sentence?
Rapists and murderers get less.


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Old 18th March 2016, 15:08   #13 (permalink)
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Re: British Tourist fighting for life.

The words in the UK used to be, if you cant do the time don't do the crime. Now its, do the crime because you wont be doing the time.
I fail to understand how sex offenders get bail even though they have been charged & the evidence is damming. I also don't get how a drink driver who kills someone walks out of court a free person.

For sure though I will never understand the Islamic Courts of Justice when it comes to their sentencing.........horrific.
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Old 18th March 2016, 16:23   #14 (permalink)
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Re: British Tourist fighting for life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WIDDRINGTON View Post
to be fair Bickern, a stabbing offence like this in the UK is very likely to incur a non community sentence - usually in a young offenders establishment. Interestingly, there is debate in the UK as to whether the age of criminal responsibility should be lowered. In this young Turk's case he would have known wrong from right and deserved to lose his liberty for a considerable length of time.
Fair comment but...

Catherine Wilkins said that her parents might be alive today if Hobson had been jailed for stabbing William Brace in a crowded street in March 2002. Instead, he escaped with community service and a probation order when he was sentenced for unlawful wounding by Judge Scott Wolstenholme at Leeds Crown Court on June 13, 2003.

Victims' families say 'lenient' sentence left quadruple murderer free to kill - Telegraph

This guy should have been locked up.

Crown fails in bid to jail Prestwick shop stabber - BBC News

and this one

Man sentenced for affray after stabbing outside Colchester nightclub (From Gazette)

This woman should have

Student Walks Free From Jail Despite Stabbing Man In The Eye With Her Christian Louboutin Heel

Loads more instances of judges being soft in the UK.
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Old 18th March 2016, 16:26   #15 (permalink)
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Re: British Tourist fighting for life.

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Originally Posted by teosgirl View Post
Lol, please re-read your comment and tell me you're joking.
No Charlotte I wasn't joking it was said as a throwaway comment to make a point (not a verbatim one) of judges being soft and was aimed at the UK not Turkey, or more precise judges (individual ones) the world over going soft.

I also think Steve made his comment with ironic intent not factual.
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Last edited by bickern; 18th March 2016 at 16:30..
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Old 18th March 2016, 21:06   #16 (permalink)
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Re: British Tourist fighting for life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bickern View Post
Fair comment but...

Catherine Wilkins said that her parents might be alive today if Hobson had been jailed for stabbing William Brace in a crowded street in March 2002. Instead, he escaped with community service and a probation order when he was sentenced for unlawful wounding by Judge Scott Wolstenholme at Leeds Crown Court on June 13, 2003.

Victims' families say 'lenient' sentence left quadruple murderer free to kill - Telegraph

This guy should have been locked up.

Crown fails in bid to jail Prestwick shop stabber - BBC News

and this one

Man sentenced for affray after stabbing outside Colchester nightclub (From Gazette)

This woman should have

Student Walks Free From Jail Despite Stabbing Man In The Eye With Her Christian Louboutin Heel

Loads more instances of judges being soft in the UK.
we are talking from the same hymn sheet when it involves cases like the ones you quote. Totally agree with your disgust at these sentences.When I was in my teens in Glasgow, there was a period when serious stabbings and slashings were very common. There was a certain judge Lord Cameron who always gave maximum possible sentences for such crimes and the accused would always enquire anxiously which judge was hearing their case.It was a joy to see their faces when it was Lord Cameron.
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Old 29th March 2016, 06:38   #17 (permalink)
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Re: British Tourist fighting for life.

I read the event on the Turkish newspaper which was posted its link by the OP in his first post.
The news says the stabbed British tourist was 20, the son of the shop owner was 15 years old, 5 years younger.
I think it means the Turkish boy was weaker in the fight. Normally 20 years old male can hurt 15 years boy easily in a fight. For instance, males in Turkey can't join the army before they become 20. They can join when they are 18 if they wish. For a 15 year boy it's impossible. I think probably the court took "physical weaknesses in a fight" factor into account. (its name may be different in the actual legal terminology, but I know there is a legal thing named "self defence")

Another possible factor could be that this event was not happened on the street for no reason. The shop owner or his son or his workers can defend their shops, workplaces as we defend our houses. This factor might have been taken into account as well.

The newspaper page also says there is an Irish tourist in the shop during the fight. Irish person says "British guy wanted to replace the bag. He was told that the bag he liked is more expensive and he should pay the difference. A hassle showed up between the counterman and the British. Then turned into a fight with punches and kicks. I went out and asked for help. At the same moment, the boy took a knife and stabbed the British from belly then run away."
There might be small errors in my translation. I tried to make less errors when translating.

I think this type of sad events can happen everywhere. The court wouldn't change their judgement if these 2 persons were Turkish or British or other nations.
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Last edited by needless; 29th March 2016 at 06:50..
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Old 29th March 2016, 09:45   #18 (permalink)
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Re: British Tourist fighting for life.

Still above the age of legal responsibility in Turkey , and a knife in hand , sound like attempted murder to me.

still if it was a more expensive bag , then perhaps in Turkey he had every right to " defend " his property and knife someone to death.

Perhaps us foreigners need to keep away from Turkish shopkeepers ?

I think more and more foreigners are giving Turkey the elbow.

Should we have a whip round and contribute to the bloodletting clean up ?

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Old 30th March 2016, 10:57   #19 (permalink)
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Re: British Tourist fighting for life.

I am not a lawyer. I think if the British customer didn't die, he could get a small fine. It's wrong for a customer to insist to take a particular product without paying the price. Seller is free to ask for any price (within some limits in some products), buyer is free not to buy. Seller can't force anyone to buy a particular thing, buyer can not force seller to sell a particular thing. Also, normally, you can't imagine a shop owner who is waiting people all day in his shop to attack them. This wouldn't be a logical, rational behaviour for shop owners. Because they are doing a job to earn money to pay tax, rent, feed their family, etc..

Self defence is a wide concept that I don't know its details.
It is not only in Turkey. Here is the British version:

in English law, the general common law principle is stated in Beckford v R (1988) 1 AC 130:

"A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense
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