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Old 6th August 2016, 10:37   #1 (permalink)
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TCL Rules and Management Company

Hi can somebody advise re TCL Rules. Living in a complex of 80 aparrments. Management Company is the builder ( conflict of interest? And is this legal) always voted by majority at AGM. Nothing legally signed between Committee/Owners/managenent. Is a contract required from management co. stating their services to complex etc. Reason asked is we have owners who owe quite a lot but management will not use court proceedings to recover debts even though this and other decisions have been passed many times at AGM"s which they never act on. Many thanks
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Old 6th August 2016, 16:23   #2 (permalink)
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Re: TCL Rules and Management Company

Board of owners can apply to court instead of management company. Management company answers to Board not vice versa.
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Old 6th August 2016, 16:36   #3 (permalink)
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Re: TCL Rules and Management Company

Who are the committee ? how many votes do the builders have ?

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Old 6th August 2016, 16:59   #4 (permalink)
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Re: TCL Rules and Management Company

Hi thanks for both replies. Manager is relative of building co. and works for building co. that assists him in running complex. We have 3 controllers as committee who when I queried whether we need a written binding contract for Managers work which he is paid 21000 lira a year, I've been told by controllers that just the majority vote at each AGM agreeing to this manager and company running the complex is contract in itself. I think this is illegal as we have owners who won't pay up and yet this manager has not taken anybody to court despite owners agreeing to this at all AGMs. I think this is the reason why he can't do this. Think that this manager should outli e his services so that owners have a chance to query same and vote at next AGM and have it written so that he is accountable. As it is he does what he pleases and controllers let him
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Old 6th August 2016, 17:01   #5 (permalink)
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Re: TCL Rules and Management Company

You need to form an owners committee, how many votes do the managers, builders have ?

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Old 7th August 2016, 03:17   #6 (permalink)
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Re: TCL Rules and Management Company

Quote:
Originally Posted by annie1951 View Post
Hi can somebody advise re TCL Rules. Living in a complex of 80 aparrments. Management Company is the builder ( conflict of interest? And is this legal) always voted by majority at AGM. Nothing legally signed between Committee/Owners/managenent. Is a contract required from management co. stating their services to complex etc. Reason asked is we have owners who owe quite a lot but management will not use court proceedings to recover debts even though this and other decisions have been passed many times at AGM"s which they never act on. Many thanks
The situation you describe is all too common .Firstly , what does your management plan say with regard to management of your complex? Is your management structure legally set up? You mention a committee - what role does it have? Do you have a 3 person management board or is it just a simple case of naïve owners having given full delegated powers to the builder at an AGM? You can check out the legal status of your complex management arrangements at the Belidiye.

Let's be frank here - the only reason why a builder will want to retain managerial responsibility for a complex is to make money. Does your complex run a tendering exercise for the management contract? If not why not? As for your comment re AGM decisions not being actioned by your manager then why has he/she been re-elected? Obviously an AGM has voted to re-elect him/her in the knowledge that these decisions have not been acted upon by the manager - yes/no?

For the life of me I cannot understand owners on a complex not wanting to be in control of decisionmaking . It is common for a builder to retain managerial control until he/she has fulfilled all obligations and the complex has obtained it's Iskan ( Habitation Certificate). After that the expectation is that the builder will enable a smooth handover of control to the owners . The owners then have the choice of appointing a Board Of Management ( just like a Board of Directors) or choose a singleton manager or appoint a management company to manage the complex. Whatever option is chosen is essentially then a contractual employer/employee arrangement ie the AGM is the employer and the manager/management is the employee. It is expected by law that contractual terms and conditions are drawn up. It is no different to you personally employing a rental management company to manage your holiday rentals - you should be in a position to call the shots, you dictate the what/how/when etc.

I cannot understand why your AGM has allowed the situation you describe to continue ? It should be a standing agenda item at your AGM to have a manager's report and inspectors/ controllers report. A manager's responsibilities for the 12 month period have to be " signed off" by the AGM. A majority vote must have been achieved somehow so is it a case of owners naively giving the builder their proxy vote which enables him/her to vote themself back in - that certainly happens. And what are the appointed inspectors/controllers doing to communicate to owners how well or otherwise the manager/management company are doing their job? As for the non action you describe, it is not unknown for builders who retain managerial control to allow debt to build up with the aim of eventual court action resulting in them being able to recoup properties at a low knockdown price.

Out of interest -who draws up your site budget? Do owners take control of this or do you just expect the manager/ management company to draw it up? Is your budget used as a forecasting tool or is it really just a case of the manager putting some figures against some headings which effectively acts as your annual charge? Does your budget build in costs for an independent solicitor to attend your AGM to represent the owners or is the solicitor in attendance really acting for the manager or management company. That is often a situation where there can be a clear conflict of interest.It is always advisable for owners to have an independent solicitor and translator in attendance at an AGM and it is also advisable to have the Turkish minutes translated so that you know what you are signing for at the end of the AGM.

You are not the first to be in such a situation and you wont be the last - unfortunately. I wish you well.
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Old 7th August 2016, 03:41   #7 (permalink)
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Re: TCL Rules and Management Company

Quote:
Originally Posted by annie1951 View Post
Hi can somebody advise re TCL Rules. Living in a complex of 80 aparrments. Management Company is the builder ( conflict of interest? And is this legal) always voted by majority at AGM. Nothing legally signed between Committee/Owners/managenent. Is a contract required from management co. stating their services to complex etc. Reason asked is we have owners who owe quite a lot but management will not use court proceedings to recover debts even though this and other decisions have been passed many times at AGM"s which they never act on. Many thanks
I am under the impression that the problem with taking any owner to court (or so I'm told) is simply that: -

Firstly it costs in the region of 600TL for the court appearance plus all and any lawyer and translator costs on top of that.

And secondly on one instance the court has made a 'Ipotek/Lien' on the owners 'SCRAPPED OUT MOTORCYCLE' which wasn't worth anything.
Although why it was made on a motorcycle and not on the owners property was never understood, so it cost money to get nothing in return.
Maybe this is the norm (I don't know) but it would certainly explain why we 'do not' hear of more people being taken to court for maintenance debts.

********************************
I found this some time ago which might also shed light on cost's of a Lien etc, you decide...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigalant View Post
Hi Guys

Here is what one legal adviser is saying.
Had a really usefull chat.

Alan

Dear Alan,

Thank you for your call. I have checked the ipotek subject as follows and hope this information below helps.

An ipotek derives from the german term hypotek which is similar in meaning to the Anglo-Saxon usage of ‘mortgage’.
An ipotek is similar to a UK charge or a US lien on the property.
Normally an ipotek would be a first senior charge.

A discussion of levels, enforcement, subordination, and claim procedures is a more technical discussion and would need to be referenced to a specific circumstance, and is essential because the Turkish law has gone through various modifications in relation to collecting monies against an ipotek, with the introduction of mortgage lending in Turkey.
So the drafting and execution of an ipotek requires specialist guidance, often not available from general solicitors.

The costs are generally approx 1.15 - 1.65 % of value, taxed and notarised etc, plus ancillary charges and costs, not including the legal fees for advice, drafting, and execution..

The use of an ipotek is most commonly for securing (with a claim on the property) a loan repayment, but may also be used to discourage transfer of a property, and can be used to attain security, for example, ipoteks are commonly used in our contracts to secure against specific risks in a transaction.
However they are not the only remedy and there are often more cost effective means. Generally, the greater ‘comfort’ provided by the security, the greater the transaction cost.

We would be grateful if you place a link on the Turkish Living Forum please use this one:
Investment Property Villas Istanbul Turkey
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Old 7th August 2016, 13:27   #8 (permalink)
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Re: TCL Rules and Management Company

Hi
we are having our AGM in September and there will be a vacancy on committee,one owner wants to stand but has been informed that he has to be in attendance for him to be nominated is this true?I thought that he could be nominated by person/s who are in attendance as long as he informs the committee of his intentions beforehand.I would like to know what is the correct/legal way to do this .
Many Thanks
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Old 7th August 2016, 23:20   #9 (permalink)
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Re: TCL Rules and Management Company

Thank you everybody for your views which are very interesting and informative. We have 3 Controllers who are the go/between the Owners and the Management. Management draw up every year the budget for the year and despite proposals passed at AGM they don't always carry them out. They don't tender for any job but use their own firm. Sadly a lot of the Owners are not interested and give their vote as proxy to people who want to keep the status which we have. I am very grateful for your help and I'm making a note of all your comments. Thank you so much and think we have a long battle ahead
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