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Old 30th July 2014, 12:40   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

From where I'm sitting it's Russia ‘nibbling at the borders’.

It sounds almost as though you are blaming the US for the Russian invasion of Ukraine and for the terrorist’s criminal activities there.
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Old 30th July 2014, 13:12   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

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Originally Posted by Jaycey View Post
From where I'm sitting it's Russia ‘nibbling at the borders’.

It sounds almost as though you are blaming the US for the Russian invasion of Ukraine and for the terrorist’s criminal activities there.
Not me Jaycey, Russia is the culprit that's for sure. I do think though that the US/EU may have been manipulating certain situations for the last couple of years (at least).

Of course there is a little issue that has gone on the missing list. The Crimea. All of a sudden its out of the news BUT the sanctions were initially put in place for Russia's annexation of the Crimea. Now seems forgotten, did those sanctions work?

After all of this Russia will still have gas & oil along with customers which will include the EU. It does seem a bit warped to put sanctions on a country that is going to severely harm your own economy.
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Old 30th July 2014, 13:59   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

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Originally Posted by Spurs View Post
Not me Jaycey, Russia is the culprit that's for sure. I do think though that the US/EU may have been manipulating certain situations for the last couple of years (at least).


After all of this Russia will still have gas & oil along with customers which will include the EU. It does seem a bit warped to put sanctions on a country that is going to severely harm your own economy.
The Yanks have driven this with the help of their running-dog servants in UK government; EU would not have picked this fight by themselves: why poke an angry bear with a short stick?

Ian
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Old 30th July 2014, 14:11   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

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Originally Posted by immac View Post
The Yanks have driven this with the help of their running-dog servants in UK government; EU would not have picked this fight by themselves: why poke an angry bear with a short stick?

Ian
We disagree there, I think the EU with their false ideas of grandeur are well capable of picking a fight. Hence the question, are they capable of winning it by sanctions? I think not. As yet no signs of harsh tit for tat but, watch this space on that score.
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Old 30th July 2014, 14:36   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Quote:
Originally Posted by immac View Post
The Yanks have driven this with the help of their running-dog servants in UK government; EU would not have picked this fight by themselves: why poke an angry bear with a short stick?

Ian
When an angry bear is running amok and killing people you should shoot it.

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We disagree there, I think the EU with their false ideas of grandeur are well capable of picking a fight. Hence the question, are they capable of winning it by sanctions? I think not ….
I don’t think the EU picked this fight – Putin did. Sanctions have done nothing to Putin except to p*ss him off. I just hope this isn’t the final straw that will provoke him to go for broke.

But the question is – if he continues his dream of a Novorussya – what will the international community do? More sanctions? Bwaaa!

HELP UKRAINE SECURE THE BORDER FGS AND THE PROBLEM WILL GO AWAY.

Then we’ll talk about Crimea again.
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Old 30th July 2014, 14:53   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

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Originally Posted by Jaycey View Post
When an angry bear is running amok and killing people you should shoot it.



I don’t think the EU picked this fight – Putin did. Sanctions have done nothing to Putin except to p*ss him off. I just hope this isn’t the final straw that will provoke him to go for broke.

But the question is – if he continues his dream of a Novorussya – what will the international community do? More sanctions? Bwaaa!

HELP UKRAINE SECURE THE BORDER FGS AND THE PROBLEM WILL GO AWAY.

Then we’ll talk about Crimea again.
How Jacey would the borders be secured & by who? Nato would be a no,no. OSCE? Their remit seems to be the same as Natos, could the OSCE even handle it? Have they not already been blocked by separatists/terrorists/Russians in the Ukraine?

If I was a Ukrainian I would be asking myself this: Which is the most important issue to me, the downing of a plane or the loss of Crimea? Why did it take the downing of a plane full of foreigners for the EU/US to actually produce "meaningful" sanctions (if that's what they turn out to be)?

I will say this, at long last if the news reports are right, the Ukraine Forces are getting stuck in.
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Old 30th July 2014, 14:54   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

I am quite content to let him have Ukraine - a tin-pot country with ideas above its station. Yes, shoot the bear if you can, but don't just irritate it, that is silly.

NATO, acting on behalf of its main shareholder, have driven this along. Attempts to surround Russia with missiles brought on all the warnings a blind man could have read. Despite this, USA was determined to keep prodding; a string of armed US bases deployed between Russia and the Gulf - anyone could see what was coming. Good for Putin to stand up against their stupid foreign policy blunders.

Ian
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Old 30th July 2014, 15:25   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

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what Israel is doing is disproportionate

Ian



Ian,
A question that has been asked before. What would you consider to be a proportionate Israeli response?

Bill.
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Old 30th July 2014, 15:25   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs View Post
How Jacey would the borders be secured & by who? Nato would be a no,no. OSCE? Their remit seems to be the same as Natos, could the OSCE even handle it? Have they not already been blocked by separatists/terrorists/Russians in the Ukraine?

If I was a Ukrainian I would be asking myself this: Which is the most important issue to me, the downing of a plane or the loss of Crimea? Why did it take the downing of a plane full of foreigners for the EU/US to actually produce "meaningful" sanctions (if that's what they turn out to be)?

I will say this, at long last if the news reports are right, the Ukraine Forces are getting stuck in.
True but the OSCE are unarmed and the UN showed their colours in Rwanda. Time for someone else to step up to the plate but who’s got the balls?

The most important issue for Ukraine right now is the survival of its sovereign integrity. It’s a shame that it took MH17 to make the world wake up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by immac View Post
I am quite content to let him have Ukraine - a tin-pot country with ideas above its station. Yes, shoot the bear if you can, but don't just irritate it, that is silly.

NATO, acting on behalf of its main shareholder, have driven this along. Attempts to surround Russia with missiles brought on all the warnings a blind man could have read. Despite this, USA was determined to keep prodding; a string of armed US bases deployed between Russia and the Gulf - anyone could see what was coming. Good for Putin to stand up against their stupid foreign policy blunders.

Ian
Is that you again Soreass?
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Old 30th July 2014, 15:31   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Quote:
Originally Posted by immac View Post
I am quite content to let him have Ukraine - a tin-pot country with ideas above its station. Yes, shoot the bear if you can, but don't just irritate it, that is silly.

NATO, acting on behalf of its main shareholder, have driven this along. Attempts to surround Russia with missiles brought on all the warnings a blind man could have read. Despite this, USA was determined to keep prodding; a string of armed US bases deployed between Russia and the Gulf - anyone could see what was coming. Good for Putin to stand up against their stupid foreign policy blunders.

Ian
you speak like a man who would be happy to see Russian troops on the streets of the UK , If your happy to see them on the streets of another sovereign nation.
Why do we have internationally recognised borders if there not to be adhered to.

If these recently freed nations decide to deploy missiles for security, what business is it of Russia?
They were ringed before in the cold war without problems.

Its time Russia woke up to the fact they are no longer the super power they were but a corrupt one income stream economy.
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