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Old 30th July 2014, 07:16   #1 (permalink)
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Russian Sanctions

Watching the rush to judgement, without bothering with evidence or trial, I am of the view that we are being fed a line to take our eyes away from the real story. Perhaps it is to divert us from the Israel mess; perhaps to justify some difficult legislation around terrorism; or perhaps the real evidence needs to be hushed up about the plane being shot down.

Anyway, I am waiting for the real story, not the one being pushed in my face.

Ian
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Old 30th July 2014, 08:04   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Ruble dropping again ?

Interest rates rising ?

Steve.
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Old 30th July 2014, 08:50   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Perhaps fracking is the story? Certainly if Putin triggers an EU energy crisis, all the arguments against British fracking evaporate. USA is looking for EU markets for its spare energy, we are told.

Arms manufacturers will be delighted with the prospect of a new arms race.

No talk yet about USA being held accountable for supporting the murderous Israeli forces in the way they want to hold Putin to account for supporting his local difficulty. Just listened to the British Foreign Secretay who could not bring himself to say that what Israel is doing is disproportionate

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Old 30th July 2014, 09:34   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Do sanctions really achieve anything? Anything Russia needs I guess they can buy elsewhere.

As you said immac it is probably all a smoke screen to divert from the real issues.
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Old 30th July 2014, 10:11   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Quote:
Originally Posted by immac View Post
Watching the rush to judgement, without bothering with evidence or trial, I am of the view that we are being fed a line to take our eyes away from the real story. Perhaps it is to divert us from the Israel mess; perhaps to justify some difficult legislation around terrorism; or perhaps the real evidence needs to be hushed up about the plane being shot down.

Anyway, I am waiting for the real story, not the one being pushed in my face.

Ian
................ ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by immac View Post
Perhaps fracking is the story? Certainly if Putin triggers an EU energy crisis, all the arguments against British fracking evaporate. USA is looking for EU markets for its spare energy, we are told.

Arms manufacturers will be delighted with the prospect of a new arms race.

No talk yet about USA being held accountable for supporting the murderous Israeli forces in the way they want to hold Putin to account for supporting his local difficulty. Just listened to the British Foreign Secretay who could not bring himself to say that what Israel is doing is disproportionate

Ian
Looks like you’ve taken your own thread off topic to satisfy your political agenda


Quote:
Originally Posted by tosmur View Post
Do sanctions really achieve anything? Anything Russia needs I guess they can buy elsewhere.

As you said immac it is probably all a smoke screen to divert from the real issues.
I agree that sanctions probably won’t achieve much. Sanctions take time to bite – and time isn’t something that Ukraine has.

But to suggest that Ukraine isn’t a ‘real issue’ is absurd – this is a European war FGS! Sure Israel, Syria etc are important but the outcome won’t impact on Europe to anything like the same extent.
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Old 30th July 2014, 10:17   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Looks like you’ve taken your own thread off topic to satisfy your political agenda

Your the expert, so you must be right.

A couple of other things happened this week out of the blue: government starts investigation into the death of the poisoned Russian journalist - something they have been sitting on for years.
Yesterday USA accuse Russia of a breach of arms limitation treaty for an event that happened months ago (test of some rocket).

Ian
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Old 30th July 2014, 10:30   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Quote:
Originally Posted by immac View Post
Looks like you’ve taken your own thread off topic to satisfy your political agenda

Your the expert, so you must be right.

A couple of other things happened this week out of the blue: government starts investigation into the death of the poisoned Russian journalist - something they have been sitting on for years.
Yesterday USA accuse Russia of a breach of arms limitation treaty for an event that happened months ago (test of some rocket).

Ian
Errr, yes, I think .... is this your response to post #5?

..... ... ?
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Old 30th July 2014, 10:50   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

Timothy Ash: Russian markets engage in 'relief rally' over weakness of new Western sanctions

“Actually Russian markets are partaking in something of a relief rally this morning, with the rouble stronger, credit tighter and the Russian stock market higher, which is a reflection of a range of factors:

First, relief that the latest sanction iteration was not worse, and did not extend to existing debt/equity holdings, only future long term financing.
The line perhaps - if this is the worse you can do from a market perspective, "bring it on."

Herein there is an underlying sense that the West still does not really want to bite the bullet and roll out a meaningful sanctions regime - it has the tool kit to hurt Russia, but would rather not for fear of the collateral damage back to its own business interests …. “
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Old 30th July 2014, 11:28   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

I posted some time ago about the troubles that the EU's courting of the Ukraine would undoubtedly create....... I seem to remember someone ticking me off for a phrase I used to describe what the EU were doing in that area 'nibbling at Russia's borders'! Does anyone believe that Russia was just going to sit back & watch - do nothing? They are not so stupid as the majority of the EU member states! They could see exactly what the EU were doing.... Expanding.

Of course the USA are on the EU's side, they want the USA's TTIP agreement with the EU ratified, up & running! they have their own expansion projects to look after

"After 21 March 2014 matters relating to trade integration were temporarily set aside (awaiting the results of the 25 May 2014 Ukrainian presidential elections) until the European Union and the new Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed the economic part of the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement on 27 June 2014.[2]"

Ukraine?European Union Association Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 30th July 2014, 11:34   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Russian Sanctions

I think sanctions are just a waste of time & come over as a "gentleman's agreement" but between Nations. Even if they do hurt a country, they seems to take forever & by that time the sanctioned country has adapted. If there was any seriousness in these sanctions they would freeze everything immediately & not consider on going contracts or deals to be immune.
In Russia's case the West had a choice, sanctions or force, there is just no way force was on the table.
The West has bit off more than it can chew this time, I have no idea what their goal was but the Ukrainian people were not considered as part of it.

Interesting that Putin's popularity has gone sky high in Russia & unless someone has a brainstorm, Putin is on a winner. The EU (as usual) have come out with no credence at all, the Dutch population alone must be looking at the EUs performance with contempt. The "one big happy family" failed to come together at the start & when they did it was not en-bloc but as individuals. Much like the reading of a family Will.

Time will tell but whilst waiting for the hour glass, winter is on its way along with "what no gas"? Now to me that's a sanction.
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