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Old 8th October 2018, 20:45   #12661 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

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Originally Posted by 35pluschips View Post
So only 41% of Kent are intelligent........that's shocking.

If this EU is so great, partners & all that, why do you call for Bulgaria to be kicked out, is that the only country that should be put on the hit list?
Id be amazed if its as high as 41% in Kent

But hey we are not as bad as Sunderland

THIS is why I consider Brexit voters to be ignorant. And that's as polite as I can put it

An older man, 55, pointed to one of the huge sheds behind us and said, like others, that Nissan’s multi-million pound investment in it shows the Sunderland plant is secure. He said he had voted leave to stop immigration, “EU interference”, and because the north-east gets “bugger all money” from the EU.

In fact, after Cornwall, the north-east receives England’s second-highest amount of EU structural funding proportionate to its population, according to a report compiled before the referendum for Sunderland’s public and private sector partnership, the Economic Leadership Board. The current round of EU funding, being managed by the region’s local enterprise partnership, is £437m between 2014 and 2020. Nissan itself, according to Farnsworth’s research, has received £450m in loans from the European Investment Bank, and £347m in grants and other public funding, from the UK and EU.



Frankly I am getting to the point where I think we should scrap parliamentary democracy and switch to a meritocracy to try and avoid morons like this having the vote.

Bulgaria is highly corrupt and whilst I understand why it was brought in to the EU, it has steadfastly failed to improve its standards of government and IMHO needs kicking out or kicking up the arse

The EU needs to do more to clamp down on the issues in Bulgaria especially the corruption and pollution issues.

Its a crying shame the UK will not be there next year to put pressure on the EU to do this.
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Old 8th October 2018, 21:26   #12662 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga View Post
Fact is that Edward Heath took UK into the EEC/Common Market back in '73, the government spent 2 years on the nuts and bolts of the deal then asked the British public to approve the terms of the accession treaty in a referendum in 75. It was assumed that entry was a 'good thing' regardless of any future plans, which, if known by any of the senior civil servants and government officials at that time were certainly not made public.
That was the FIRST referendum.

The SECOND referendum was held on David Cameron's (call me Dave) watch June 23rd 2016 with the leave result on 24th. Cameron had already been to Brussels to try to convince the EU that the British public were not willing to accept further 'ever closer union.' The EU refused to listen and an exasperated Dave then put it to the people. The rest is history.

Many people have said it's unfair that older people voted in the June'16 referendum because their decision would affect young people's lives rather than their own, but no-one ever mentions the young people who voted no in '75 and have had their life chances changed by that vote for he last 40 years.
OK I am only 54 so not qualified, but how exactly has my life been changed for the worse by the EU in the last 40 years

Because I remember my dad having a good job (Head Chief of the Dorchester London) yet we didn't have a new car and had a black and white TV and never went abroad on holiday?


Now my wife and I have a new car, the kids have new cars and I have a spare car for work???? And a 65" 4K UHD TV


Prety much like all my middle class friends do



When I compare our standards of living today, with the standards in the 70s. We have progressed significantly


In no small way we have had the advantage of the free trade market and access to low cost EU goods. The free trade and standardisation agreements with the EU have created a whole just in time manufacturing system which has slashed costs in many industries allowing us to enjoy a higher standard of product at a more affordable price.

And of course this ignores the trivial stuff like the benefits of partnership with the EU in negotiating trade deals with 165 countries across the globe which have significantly benefited the UK and the security things like the European Court of human rights has given you and me.

In Cornwall, northern Ireland and the Scottish highlands the EU has given grants equating to between £600 up to over £1000 PER PERSON and created over 80,000 jobs

In kent we don't get much, only about 50.00 per person because we are considered wealthy but in truth that equates to around 40 million in grants

Hear are some of them

https://www.kent.gov.uk/business/bus...ing/eu-funding



SOOOOOO anyway back to your point.

Whats the bad side of the EU then? SPECIFICLY not some general purpose ranting about mythical sovereignty issues please. Some fact based points if you will. Perhaps with a link like I put up
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Old 8th October 2018, 21:40   #12663 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasey View Post
Id be amazed if its as high as 41% in Kent

But hey we are not as bad as Sunderland

THIS is why I consider Brexit voters to be ignorant. And that's as polite as I can put it

An older man, 55, pointed to one of the huge sheds behind us and said, like others, that Nissan’s multi-million pound investment in it shows the Sunderland plant is secure. He said he had voted leave to stop immigration, “EU interference”, and because the north-east gets “bugger all money” from the EU.

In fact, after Cornwall, the north-east receives England’s second-highest amount of EU structural funding proportionate to its population, according to a report compiled before the referendum for Sunderland’s public and private sector partnership, the Economic Leadership Board. The current round of EU funding, being managed by the region’s local enterprise partnership, is £437m between 2014 and 2020. Nissan itself, according to Farnsworth’s research, has received £450m in loans from the European Investment Bank, and £347m in grants and other public funding, from the UK and EU.



Frankly I am getting to the point where I think we should scrap parliamentary democracy and switch to a meritocracy to try and avoid morons like this having the vote.

Bulgaria is highly corrupt and whilst I understand why it was brought in to the EU, it has steadfastly failed to improve its standards of government and IMHO needs kicking out or kicking up the arse

The EU needs to do more to clamp down on the issues in Bulgaria especially the corruption and pollution issues.

Its a crying shame the UK will not be there next year to put pressure on the EU to do this.
Reading your post some people think the older 55 man is isolated and on his own however if anyone wants to check the article where you lifted selected sections to suit your own agenda we will find out he is not isolated and alone

An older man, 55, pointed to one of the huge sheds behind us and said, like others, that Nissan’s multi-million pound investment in it shows the Sunderland plant is secure. He said he had voted leave to stop immigration, “EU interference”, and because the north-east gets “bugger all money” from the EU.

In fact, after Cornwall, the north-east receives England’s second-highest amount of EU structural funding proportionate to its population, according to a report compiled before the referendum for Sunderland’s public and private sector partnership, the Economic Leadership Board. The current round of EU funding, being managed by the region’s local enterprise partnership, is £437m between 2014 and 2020. Nissan itself, according to Farnsworth’s research, has received £450m in loans from the European Investment Bank, and £347m in grants and other public funding, from the UK and EU.

Another Nissan worker, 63, sitting on a barrier waiting for his lift home, said he had voted leave, like many of his colleagues, because he was “sick of the EU deciding our laws”. I asked him if he accepted that leaving was damaging to the car industry, and to Nissan. He did, he replied, then smiled, and said that would still not prompt him to change his mind.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...siness-dilemma
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Old 8th October 2018, 21:51   #12664 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

The EU’s customs union is a protectionist racket

Tit-for-tat mercantilism is a well-known feature of trade deals
The EU is pretty poor at securing trade deals with large economies
The EU's protectionism distorts the British economy
Bizarrely, the front-line debate on the economics of leaving the EU now centres on whether Britain should stay or remain within the EU’s customs union. This is bizarre because, unlike with the single market, Brexiteers of all stripes took the departure from this customs union as given and a boon.


By definition, a customs union is an agreement between countries to embrace tariff-free trade between members but impose common tariffs on goods imported from non-members. At an EU-level, this means a Common External Tariff (CET), a dizzying array of over 12,651 different taxes (and some quotas to boot) imposed on goods from the rest of the world. The long and short of it is that the EU is internally trade liberating but outwardly protectionist.

The argument for remaining a member of this block (as articulated by the UK Chancellor Philip Hammond) seems to be concern at the impact leaving might have on “complex pan-European supply chains where often components and self-assemblies move backwards and forwards across European borders several times”.


That’s because outside of the customs union, and in the absence of a bilateral free-trade deal with the EU, UK exporters would face the EU’s common external tariff and importers would face the UK’s decided tariff rates under WTO rules (applied equally to EU imports). In other words, businesses could face two-way tariffs if they import and export simultaneously.

This is certainly a possibility. But the degree of disruption is dependent on the Government’s own policy decision on tariff rates. In my view, the case for remaining in the customs union is overwhelmed by the advantages and opportunities from leaving.

After leaving, the UK would be able to set its own import tariffs to prevent the hike in input prices. Most UK Brexiteers desire a free-trade agreement with the EU. In the absence of such a thing, the UK would set its own tariff structures, applied to all countries as per WTO rules.

Any new tariffs faced by those importing inputs from the EU post-Brexit would therefore be self-inflicted, decided by the UK government. The UK Government is perfectly at liberty to abolish tariffs entirely, allowing manufacturing industries to import inputs more cheaply from anywhere in the world.


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Exiting the customs union likewise grants the UK the opportunity to lower prices for consumers more broadly and to improve the productive capacity of the economy. The CET, coupled with non-tariff barriers imposed by the EU, has resulted in agricultural and manufactured goods prices being around 20 per cent above world prices.

Such protectionism also distorts the economy away from trading according to its comparative advantages. Leaving the customs union would allow tariff cuts or even give us the opportunity to embrace unilateral free trade.

This would act like a big dynamic tax cut through the economy – lowering goods prices directly, but also leading to more efficient industry as all face competition at world prices. If there were “disruption”, it would be positive disruption leading to a more productive economy.

Using the language of the referendum, leaving the customs union is the only way to fully “take back control” of trade policy too.

When one looks at the sorts of tariffs the EU imposes (4.7 per cent on tennis rackets, 2.7 per cent on roller skates, 3.7 per cent on fishing rods), one has to wonder: how are these tariffs being decided and by whom? Certainly, they are not for the benefit of the UK’s consumers.

This is particularly obvious when one sees certain tariffs, like those on oranges, applied seasonally as protection against the South African harvest. Quotas on meat carcasses lead to questions about what factors are affecting these decisions on amounts and why. The most credible explanation seems to be overt protectionism, the price of which is paid by UK shoppers.

Exiting the customs union would, therefore, allow the UK to decide tariff policy in a less opaque manner. Even if it were deemed appropriate to “protect” certain industries (a path I would not advocate), the UK would surely cease imposing seven different tariff rates on coffee, a product for which it has no producer interests.

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Remaining within the block would mean the UK had no say on tariff rates, despite suffering the consequences of their imposition.

Finally, remaining a member of the EU customs union would severely hamper the ability to sign free trade deals with other countries too. Contrary to popular belief, the customs union in itself does not preclude Britain signing free trade deals (the EU’s common commercial policy does). But without being able to offer up tariff-free deals to third parties, continued membership would in reality severely limit the UK’s leverage and attractiveness for trade agreements.

Since the EU referendum, many politicians in large economies, including the United States and Australia, have expressed desire for striking free-trade deals with the UK. Dealing with the competing interests of 28 different member states, the EU has until now been relatively poor at securing comprehensive trade deals with some of the world’s largest economies. Leaving the EU enables the UK to be nimbler in making deals.

Yet if she cannot offer reduced-tariff access to her markets in goods, it is unlikely that trade negotiators will grant the UK better access in services in the negotiator’s own markets. This tit-for-tat mercantilism is regrettable, but a well-known feature of trade deals worldwide.

All this is not to say that leaving the customs union will not lead to some costs for certain firms and industries, or disruption. There will be more in the way of customs checks (though these would likely quickly become routinised). But the aggregate benefits of a UK controlling its own trade and tariff policy, particularly for consumers, are likely to be much greater.

Ryan Bourne occupies the R. Evan Scharf Chair in the Public Understanding of Economics at the Cato Institute in Washington DC.

https://capx.co/the-eus-customs-unio...ionist-racket/
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Old 8th October 2018, 21:56   #12665 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

Here’s why we need out of the protectionist racket that is the EU’s Customs Union

The ongoing debates about whether or not the UK should remain in the EU’s Customs Union have become a proxy for the old arguments about whether the UK should Leave or Remain in the EU. Some have even admitted that this is what they are trying to achieve – by using membership of the Customs Union as a backdoor into staying in the EU under the control of Brussels. However, staying in the Customs Union would not only be a betrayal of the referendum result, but to do so would hold our country back and undermine the economic and political freedoms we will secure on 29th March 2019. The Prime Minister has made the case that leaving the Customs Union gives us all a chance to reflect on the problems the Customs Union has caused and the opportunities and benefits of leaving it. While supporters of the Customs Union have sought to hold it up as providing our country with benefits, the fact is that the Customs Union – with its external tariff – represents a protectionist bloc. The Customs Union serves to inhibit and restrict free trade, it keeps prices high for the poorest consumers in the UK and it damages and oppresses markets in poorer and developing countries. Remaining in the Customs Union would be economically misguided and morally reprehensible. How can it be right to advocate the UK continuing to subscribe to an institution that fails some of the poorest people in the world? Let’s look at how developing countries are treated when it comes to some of our favourite products – coffee and chocolate. Raw coffee beans and cocoa beans harvested from developing countries are welcomed into the EU with no tariff barriers, free from duties. But those same countries which harvest these raw materials from their natural resources cannot sell processed goods made from them – like roasted coffee beans or chocolate bars – without incurring huge tariffs. This holds back economic development in those nations which are being blocked from selling products to our market on fair terms. In Britain we care passionately about there being fairness in trade arrangements but this has no meaning while we remain shackled to the Customs Union’s oppressive and discriminatory tariffs. Inequalities are exaggerated as companies based in the EU take advantage of this system, harming the poorest people in the developing world and causing higher prices for consumers in Europe. The same vested and powerful interests which benefit from the protections that the Customs Union gives them are those campaigning for the UK to remain in it. As well as acting as a serious barrier to economic development because of the way tariffs are put in place, the Customs Union has an impact on our aid programme. During my time in Government, I re-orientated UK support towards economic development in order to enable developing countries to become more economically sustainable and able to support themselves, rather than just focusing on aid. But they can only do this by being able to trade on fair and mutually beneficial terms. It is shocking to see that these countries’ ability to create new jobs, grow themselves out of poverty and move off of overseas development assistance programmes is being stopped by protectionist trade policies. In all my engagement with businesses, charities and politicians, they reiterated the importance of reforming the trade system and removing barriers to enter the EU and other developed countries’ markets as that is the best and most sustainable way to long-term development and trading their way out of poverty. Leaving the Customs Union will give the UK the freedom to negotiate its own trade deals and be a beacon for free trade. This will put the UK in an enviable position to be able to slash tariffs, open up global markets and improve trade partnerships across the world. Those who want the UK to remain in the Customs Union often argue that to leave would affect trade with the EU as our biggest trading partner. However, this argument goes against the grain of reality and global economic trends. While the EU accounts for around 40% of our trade, this is because of the arrangements imposed upon us by our membership of the EU concentrating trade within this protectionist bloc. Although the proportion of our trade with the rest of world is rising, the Customs Union holds us back and we could be doing so much better. It is our membership of the EU and the Custom Unions that disrupts global trade flows and by leaving we can secure better opportunities to boost jobs and growth at home and abroad. In the 21st century, other economies will excel and Europe’s economic power will weaken. In 1990 the EU accounted for 28% of the global economy. By the end of this decade it will fall to 16% and by 2050 PWC have estimated that it will fall below 10%. Being chained to the EU through membership of the Customs Union risks dragging us under. The freedom to negotiate our own trade deals means we can form closer partnerships with growing markets and the countries that have a strong affinity with Britain. The Gulf States, for example, have a great appetite for British goods and services. As we saw with last week’s Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, our shared history with our friends in the Commonwealth and the work we have done supporting developing countries has built ties, while supporting the establishment of the institutions and capacity in those countries to be free to trade more. Moreover, the USA, our biggest trading partner, has given a clear indication that they want to trade more with us when we leave the EU, with President Trump wanting to establish a “very big and exciting” trade deal. These opportunities can only be grasped by having freedom from the Customs Union. With so much to gain from leaving the Customs Union, the opponents to this have now resorted to making claims about hard borders being established and questioning how Britain can trade freely with the EU from outside the Customs Union. The answers to these questions are straightforward. Countries from outside of the EU which have eventually negotiated trade deals with the EU, lowering and removing some tariffs, have access to European markets and trade without undue restriction. In terms of hard borders and monitoring the trade in goods between borders for customs purposes, it is only the pessimists who see problems. The advent of new electronic technologies and the ability to exchange documents prior to the crossing of borders means we can have effective customs controls in place without the need for border posts and intrusive bureaucracy. By leaving the Customs Union we can take forward our national mission on Brexit. We will no longer be bound within a protectionist racket that disrupts our trade with the rest of the world and holds back the poorest overseas while increasing prices and costs for the poorest at home. For our country to succeed in the future, we need a trade policy made in Britain, not Brussels – which means getting out of the Customs Union.

https://brexitcentral.com/heres-need...customs-union/

Bottom line we pay over the market price for our Coffee in the UK becuase of the EU protectionist racket and then we pay more again with the Overseas aid budget
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Old 8th October 2018, 22:10   #12666 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

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Originally Posted by Chasey View Post
Id be amazed if its as high as 41% in Kent

But hey we are not as bad as Sunderland

THIS is why I consider Brexit voters to be ignorant. And that's as polite as I can put it

An older man, 55, pointed to one of the huge sheds behind us and said, like others, that Nissan’s multi-million pound investment in it shows the Sunderland plant is secure. He said he had voted leave to stop immigration, “EU interference”, and because the north-east gets “bugger all money” from the EU.

In fact, after Cornwall, the north-east receives England’s second-highest amount of EU structural funding proportionate to its population, according to a report compiled before the referendum for Sunderland’s public and private sector partnership, the Economic Leadership Board. The current round of EU funding, being managed by the region’s local enterprise partnership, is £437m between 2014 and 2020. Nissan itself, according to Farnsworth’s research, has received £450m in loans from the European Investment Bank, and £347m in grants and other public funding, from the UK and EU.



Frankly I am getting to the point where I think we should scrap parliamentary democracy and switch to a meritocracy to try and avoid morons like this having the vote.

Bulgaria is highly corrupt and whilst I understand why it was brought in to the EU, it has steadfastly failed to improve its standards of government and IMHO needs kicking out or kicking up the arse

The EU needs to do more to clamp down on the issues in Bulgaria especially the corruption and pollution issues.

Its a crying shame the UK will not be there next year to put pressure on the EU to do this.

With that type of attitude from remain voters, leave voters know they done the right thing by voting leave.
The LibDims couldn't wait to announce a 20% drop in UK car sales in 2017/18..................its Brexit they claimed. They forgot to mention that over the same period in Germany, car sales were down 30%. Nothing to do with Brexit, its to do with Germany/EU killing people with their fiddling & deceiving diesel engines. Has anyone in Europe gone to prison for it yet, be they manufacturers or politicians? Just hit them with fines.
Bandits, the lot of them.

I suppose you're aware that rules are tightening up on "posted workers", leaders for change being Germany/France, so why have they taken that stance? Surely its not a case that all German/French citizens are now being classed like the Brits, lazy? No, its because cheap labour is coming into their countries & undercutting their own workforce. Hence Hungary & Poland are taking Brussels to the courts...........yeah the EU is working alright.
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Old 8th October 2018, 22:27   #12667 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

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In Cornwall, northern Ireland and the Scottish highlands the EU has given grants equating to between £600 up to over £1000 PER PERSON and created over 80,000 jobs

In kent we don't get much, only about 50.00 per person because we are considered wealthy but in truth that equates to around 40 million in grants

Hear are some of them

https://www.kent.gov.uk/business/bus...ing/eu-funding

SOOOOOO anyway back to your point.

Whats the bad side of the EU then? SPECIFICLY not some general purpose ranting about mythical sovereignty issues please. Some fact based points if you will. Perhaps with a link like I put up
Any idea when the EU gets all its funding from to provide all these Grants
Try THE UK taxpayer so bascially the EU is giving us ****e
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Old 9th October 2018, 00:06   #12668 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

What the EU is currently going through are serious challenges, from inside & outside of its borders. We all know what they are but the last few years, the EU member states challenges are becoming louder & more often.
Mainstream politics must've started somewhere, that somewhere had populists.

Markel's refugee deal(s) seems to be failing. Italy have now refused to take refugees back from Germany. Morocco has refused to have a holding camp in their country. Desperation is sending people back to Libya, ISIS & other groups are still operating there. The UN (God bless them) have said, "the EU needs to sort out its own policy's on immigration/asylum/refugees before doing deals with Africa." Sounded like, "they're coming, get yourself better prepared".
They EU saw fit to pat itself on the back over sorting Greece out, when everyone know, Greece & its people are still in shackles.
Putin, Erdogan, Trump.............Juncker? I mean come on folks, he might be Mr Nice Guy but we are not in a Mr Nice Guys world.
I see problem after problem coming to the EU in the future & that's Brexit or no Brexit.
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Old 9th October 2018, 00:42   #12669 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

Japanese view of immigration

The decision by the prime minister, Shinzo Abe, to rule out any relaxation of Japan’s strict refugee policy has prompted criticism of Japan’s strict policy on asylum. Last year, it received a record 5,000 applications but accepted just 11 people

But the chief cabinet secretary, Yoshihide Suga, quickly dismissed Kono’s suggestion. “Foreign countries have undergone difficult experiences,” Suga said. “We should be careful about accepting immigrants.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...kforce-shrinks
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Old 9th October 2018, 07:49   #12670 (permalink)
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Re: BREXIT - What now ?

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The will of the majority will not be known unless there is a second referendum.

More Crap from Jon Boy

And more vulgar schoolyard insults from esb.

The will of the people was made known in 2016

A lot has happened in two years and the will of the people in 2018 is not known.

I told your before your not a MOD you will never be a MOD and you days of controlling Content on this forum is OVER

Me controlling the forum? Now I know you are smoking the same stuff as another member. A truly infantile comment!
You think that childish insult is a substitute for debate – seems that you have yet to reach an age of maturity or that you have an inherent weakness of intellect, possibly both.

I’ve already told the parable of the 4 y/o boy leaving home alone with a pack of sandwiches after a scolding to seek pastures new without any idea of where he is headed, that little boy could well represent the UK - except that you have no pack of sandwiches.

The only thing we hear from you is how you dislike the EU but you have absolutely no idea how will you will survive without it.
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