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Old 10th November 2017, 10:10   #21 (permalink)
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Re: PESCO -EU army!

Would they use the French word or the Italian word for retreat?
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Old 10th November 2017, 10:29   #22 (permalink)
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Re: PESCO -EU army!

Time for the Germans to fetch those old swastika's down from the loft.
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Old 10th November 2017, 11:05   #23 (permalink)
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Re: PESCO -EU army!

I thought that we would beat a path to their door , we have been involved with armed conflict all over the world , almost without pause , since world war two .

We love a fight as a nation and do not care who we kill , maim or destroy as long as we can sell all sides the means to wipe each other out .

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Old 11th November 2017, 03:17   #24 (permalink)
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Re: PESCO -EU army!

Another opinion:
Extract: "But he said the EU was pushing for more and more military power, having already secured support for a military HQ and considering the purchase of military equipment.

Mr Banks said there were anger among the veterans his group represented at the lack of objection from the UK."

Full: EU Army: Fury as UK could join defence union even AFTER Brexit | World | News | Express.co.uk

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Old 11th November 2017, 11:56   #25 (permalink)
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Re: PESCO -EU army!

The Express! then it must be true

It's just another E.U. "think tank" cost saving strategy, its money. And it's the money why it won't become an EU army as such, but some ad hoc command structure.

All that is asked for in Pesco is, a European Medical command, a network of logistics hubs to prevent duplication of weapon systems and joint development of new armaments. A crisis response center, and a Joint Academy for officer training.

Which has been met by a half-hearted response with only half of the membership even interested, in this opt-in opt-out, The President of Ireland only yesterday saying they won't be joining.

The EU members can't even meet the 2% budget requirements for the NATO defense force and are unlikely to come out of that pact with the US, Canada OZ and the other non-Europeans Nato members. So can't see it committing itself to pay a double budget for a parallel European Army. That's my opinion anyway.
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Old 11th November 2017, 14:02   #26 (permalink)
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Re: PESCO -EU army!

That will be the Austrian navy then, with the Liechtenstein air force (runways longer than the country) and the Italian tanks with 5 reverse gears only. . ?
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Old 11th November 2017, 14:08   #27 (permalink)
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Re: PESCO -EU army!

Yes but it's better than nothing, after all......PESCO Every little helps!!!!
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Old 13th November 2017, 20:35   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Pesco

Quote:
Originally Posted by immac View Post
PESCO is the preliminary act of setting up an EU Army, Navy and Air Force. It stands for Permanent Structured Cooperation.

On Monday, it seems, all member states will be asked to sign up to it. In doing so it will commit them to harmonise all weapons and equipment as well as merging command. This will sit outside NATO, and have a separate command structure to NATO.

An EU force, we are told by Mr Verhofstadt, will rival that of China and USA. Mr Junker has told us that member states will not have a veto on EU foreign policy or the use of such force.

UK is planning to sign this paper. There has been no discussion or debate in Parliament, and the probability is that pro-EU politicians and civil servants had hoped it would go through unnoticed.

Denmark will not sign.

Should UK be involved? Should it supplant NATO in Europe? Why (if UK is leaving) is UK planning to sign this?

Ian

ps https://ec.europa.eu/epsc/publicatio...ence-europe_en

https://www.pism.pl/publications/spotlight/no-31-2017
Britain hasn't signed PESCO today whilst 20 odd the others did .

and as you posted Denmark followed suit not signing, nor did Austria, Portugal, Ireland and Malta sign, although they still have until Dec to decide, but the Irish President made it quite clear, not for them.

Though, even if Britain had, according to Die Welt, the countries setting the agenda Germany and France, said that PESCO is neither going to supplant NATO as it will still have the primary role in the defense of the continent but run in conjunction and support, nor is it setting up Army, Navy and Air Force .

It will not according to Die Welt develop into a conventional army with EU Chief Diplomat Federica Mogherini saying "The goal is an efficient European security alliance, which, however, has nothing to do with a European army "

Member states will protect their own sovereignty in defense. Nor will it only be a purely European EU in structure, as there is the talk once set up non-EU countries like Norway and Turkey being offered places in the structure.

Anyway, will it ever see the light of day? Die Welt doesn't seem sure it starts its piece with a question, "Is it a historic breakthrough or just a non-starter?" Was it really just used to cement a shaken EU after the Brexit decision?

The EU members who signed, are in continuing negotiations, to find the billions of euros to support this work of setting up the PESCO structure and will have to adhere to the binding commitments which includes the obligation to regularly increase defense budgets. This from countries as I said before, find it hard to find their 2% defense budget for Nato and with their third biggest contributors to the EU budget, the UK leaving, is it just a federalist pipe dream we have been hearing about for years?

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/...sbuendnis.html

Be? soruda AB?nin ortak savunma anla?mas? | AVRUPA | DW | 13.11.2017

Last edited by Camden; 13th November 2017 at 21:38.. Reason: sorry typo
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Old 13th November 2017, 20:43   #29 (permalink)
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Re: PESCO -EU army!

And now You have gone and spoiled a complete mis write of the facts . Anti EU types will conspire to mislead at any cost .

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Old 14th November 2017, 00:59   #30 (permalink)
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Re: PESCO -EU army!

Before 23 countries signed the EU Defence pact today, the EU Commission had announced the next building block of an EU Military..... Doesn't sound like the countries who have signed up will be given much choice where the Tanks will be going.........

"In a*communication*published Friday, the Commission announced an action plan “to facilitate and help to expedite military mobility,” which effectively amounts to a pre-emptive strike by the Commission ahead of a meeting of defense ministers at the Council on Monday, where they are to officially sign on to a new military cooperation initiative.

The Commission communiqué came as Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg stressed the alliance’s own efforts to improve military mobility in Europe, and called for greater cooperation from EU governments at a meeting of alliance defense ministers on Wednesday.

The Commission’s move, while acknowledging national sovereignty over troop movements, nonetheless puts pressure on EU defense ministers to prioritize mobility in their new cooperation venture, and on NATO to explain why obstacles remain despite years of discussions about eliminating them, particularly in the face of new security threats from Russia."

https://www.politico.eu/article/euro...-for-military/
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