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Old 3rd January 2017, 08:53   #81 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperkat View Post
Every city, town, village will have the workshy who have lived on the state all of their eligible working lives. They had satellite tv before the working person could afford it, they spent far more time in the pubs than the working person.
When they needed full time care they went straight into the nursing homes,courtesy of the state, while their workshy families carried on milking the state of £'s every week.
Yet as soon as my dad died the bill in the nursing home for my mother went from £300.00 perweek ( the local authority rate ) to £800.00 per week ( the rate for "Private" patients ) rising annually until just before my mum died it was £1000.00 per week.
It is the inequality that rankles with most people.
The sensible get penalised, the feckless get rewarded. Way it goes in this day and age.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 13:39   #82 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperkat View Post
Every city, town, village will have the workshy who have lived on the state all of their eligible working lives. They had satellite tv before the working person could afford it, they spent far more time in the pubs than the working person.
When they needed full time care they went straight into the nursing homes,courtesy of the state, while their workshy families carried on milking the state of £'s every week.
Yet as soon as my dad died the bill in the nursing home for my mother went from £300.00 perweek ( the local authority rate ) to £800.00 per week ( the rate for "Private" patients ) rising annually until just before my mum died it was £1000.00 per week.
It is the inequality that rankles with most people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yalides View Post
The sensible get penalised, the feckless get rewarded. Way it goes in this day and age.
Our family situation is a similar story Bill, as you say it's the inequality, unfairness that gets peoples backs up

Robbing those who have only their family home as capital to pay for their own Medical Needs/Care is merely applying a Plaster on a broken leg, it won't 'fix it' & it will soon need more serious surgery. My parents generation in the main didn't get any help from the bank of mum & dad to buy their homes, ditto my generation; so they've already robbed my family of what my parents worked for, for us & if they get half a chance they will also try to rob me & my son of what I have worked for....... OK, then in just 2 generations they will have stolen it all! No Properties left to Rob, what are they going to do, who are they going to rob then????

Our NI contributions should be ring-fenced & invested in a separate account (much like Sweden did) which Cannot be used for anything other 'bill/scheme/aid program' that happens to take some prat in Whitehall's fancy to have a play with & get him/herself a gong!!!! That is what we were told our 'National Insurance' payments were for!

Agree Des, but we also Need to make sure that we keep looking after our own who because of circumstances beyond their control, are not able to provide themselves a decent life. The feckless & the conniving will continue to take care of themselves, no matter what or how.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 19:09   #83 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

Having been through similar situations to many on here with regard to paying for our parents care I do wonder if there is now a need for radical thought as to what we all want in our old age, if we get there.

Coming from a different angle how many of us actually want to end up in the social care crisis.
From my own experience I now have a signed and witnessed letter to say that If I am diagnosed with Dementia/Alzemiers I wish to be neutralised. I do not want my family or myself to either witness, experience or pay for this misery.
Unfortunately my letter holds no credence in law.
Once diagnosed, say in your eighties, if you get that far, on multiple medication you are not going to get better. Just days of misery no matter how good the care.
They say we are living longer but it is not always a happy extended life.
Even if you don't suffer from Dementia /Alzemeirs maybe physical problems do not allow you to live the life you loved.

If you are fit, well, all your faculties crack on but when the tide turns leaving old people in awful misery, nappies etc., should be a choice we surely should be allowed to make earlier as to whether we we end up in one of these homes that are sprouting up all over the place, who ever pays.

Making money from this misery is awful. It's big business now.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 20:17   #84 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

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Originally Posted by Kanga View Post
Can anyone explain why the taxpayer should cough up to protect people who have their own assets?

The local authority Treasurer of every town and city collects council tax from every household, and has to allocate the money to cover ALL services for ALL citizens, from street cleaning to education. I expect the Treasurer to use my money for the widest and best use for all; that's what we call democracy.
I don't expect them to subsidise day to day living expenses of those who can pay their own bills, from my council taxes.

How can they honestly allocate more to individual people who go into a care home?
Why should someone going into a care home suddenly have all their hotel bills covered by taxpayers who may be less well-off?


The problem of long term care is that people want to leave assets (usually a house) to the next generation and expect others to fund their care so they can protect their estate.

If that is so, they should buy life insurance and leave that to their kids in trust so no-one can get their hands on the money. 99% of beneficiaries want to inherit the value of the house, not the actual property, and if they have insurance itdoesn't matter if the local authority takes the house. Anyway, LA caree is usually the last resort, not the first, in my experience. My mother in law was in care with vascular dementia for 8 years at a cost to us all in excess of 20k a year and was so well cared for I'm sure she lived longer! She died 10 years ago now, and we are still grateful to the home for looking after her and giving her such good quality of life to the end.

Just asking.
Well I'd hardly liken my experience of care homes as being in a bloody hotel, far from it, people in prison are being treated with more respect and dignity.


Like others we sold our mothers home to pay for her care, she was treated no better by being a "paying guest" than those who were funded, not that I feel she should have been but why should someone who worked hard all her life be penalised for it.
Yes, we lost our inheritance, one that my mother as a single parent worked so hard to maintain and was so proud that she would pass it on to my brother and myself. Yes it irks, why shouldn't it.
Any other illness and she would have qualified for nursing care, why dementia comes under social care is beyond me, one of the worse bloody conditions I have witnessed.

We have been for the last 4 years, along with a team of solicitors, challenging the local authorities about my mothers fees.
They finally admitted that in the last 8 months of my mothers life she qualified for nursing care, we are not accepting this sand are pushing for at least 2 years, we'll see how we get on, we have nothing to lose.

Kanga, your mum sounds like one of the lucky ones.
The sights I've seen in some of these care homes will stay with me for the rest of my life, and people are paying for the privilege, hotels, I think not.

Sue
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Old 4th January 2017, 13:37   #85 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

Hi Sue, trying to send you a pm but your box is full x
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Old 4th January 2017, 13:54   #86 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sue & james View Post
Well I'd hardly liken my experience of care homes as being in a bloody hotel, far from it, people in prison are being treated with more respect and dignity.


Like others we sold our mothers home to pay for her care, she was treated no better by being a "paying guest" than those who were funded, not that I feel she should have been but why should someone who worked hard all her life be penalised for it.
Yes, we lost our inheritance, one that my mother as a single parent worked so hard to maintain and was so proud that she would pass it on to my brother and myself. Yes it irks, why shouldn't it.
Any other illness and she would have qualified for nursing care, why dementia comes under social care is beyond me, one of the worse bloody conditions I have witnessed.

We have been for the last 4 years, along with a team of solicitors, challenging the local authorities about my mothers fees.
They finally admitted that in the last 8 months of my mothers life she qualified for nursing care, we are not accepting this sand are pushing for at least 2 years, we'll see how we get on, we have nothing to lose.

Kanga, your mum sounds like one of the lucky ones.
The sights I've seen in some of these care homes will stay with me for the rest of my life, and people are paying for the privilege, hotels, I think not.

Sue
I could never get our local NHS trust to accept that my mum needed anything other than social care. The last 18 months of her life she was constantly under the doctor, and the cause of her death was arthersclerosis ( hardening of the arteries ) and according to the PM probably due to being inactive for far too long.
I gave up trying to get anywhere with the health trust as the costs were getting prohibitive. The solicitor said " we can try taking it to court, but the odds of winning the case aren't great, it's up to you, however be warned it could cost you a hell of a lot of money" . So I just gave up on it.
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Old 4th January 2017, 14:46   #87 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

We are just starting on this journey with my dad now, we are waiting on a formal Dementia diagnosis, he has had a memory test on which he scored low, he gets very confused and is in hospital at the moment, all the tests are showing that medically he is ok , by that they mean he has no infections. The raid team as they are called will go and have a chat with him to assess his capabillities he then needs a brain scan to identify the form of dementia at which point we can have a formal diagnosis.
If it isnt a medical problem then why does it need a consultant to diagnose his illness ?
How do you tell a 90year old that all his savings and the assetts he has worked for all his life to pass on to his children will likely be swallowed up by private enterprise because the state which he has funded all his life no longer can because someone saw an opportunity to make a profit from his condition ?
We are doing our utmost to keep him in his own home with the help and advice of the professionals from Rochdale Council who have so far been really good, but there will of course come a time when the risks outweigh the benefits at which point we will need to find residential care.
I think we have a long and difficult road ahead, one that I think we are prepared for but you never know what else is around the corner.

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Old 4th January 2017, 15:16   #88 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

For any members who have relatives that may need long term care

Whether or not you pay for care does NOT depend on your money. It depends on your care needs only. It doesnít matter how much money you do or donít have. Be sure to get properly assessed for NHS Continuing Healthcare funding. This website provides lots of information to help youÖ

What is Care To Be Different?
It's an information resource about NHS Continuing Healthcare funding in England.

If you (or a relative) need full time care and you have a certain level of savings/assets, you'll probably be told to pay. But this is where mistakes are made. If you have health needs you should first be assessed for NHS Continuing Healthcare funding.

NHS Continuing Healthcare tips and advice
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Old 4th January 2017, 15:59   #89 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperkat View Post
I could never get our local NHS trust to accept that my mum needed anything other than social care. The last 18 months of her life she was constantly under the doctor, and the cause of her death was arthersclerosis ( hardening of the arteries ) and according to the PM probably due to being inactive for far too long.
I gave up trying to get anywhere with the health trust as the costs were getting prohibitive. The solicitor said " we can try taking it to court, but the odds of winning the case aren't great, it's up to you, however be warned it could cost you a hell of a lot of money" . So I just gave up on it.
Bill, we are using a firm of no win no fee solicitors.
Initially they told us it could take up to 2 years, but 4 years later we're still battling.
We have at last got to the stage where they have admitted that for the last 8 months of my mums life she was entitled to nursing care (funny how they never come to that conclusion at the time), but we reckon it's more like 2 years and our solicitors want to push for this.
The l/a are putting so many obstacles in our way.
We only managed to sell my mums home 2 months before she died, we had a bridging loan.
Upon the sale of the property we received a bill which was paid in full.
Our solicitors asked us for a breakdown of that final bill, which we didn't have.
My brother as executor got in touch with the la to request this information, which they refused because he didn't have probate ( we didn't get probate as there were no assets)
They told us to go down the freedom of information route, which we did, only to be refused again.
We have made a formal complaint, which will now lead to an enquiry, which we will hear the outcome of by the 16th January.

I'm the first to admit as I held POA I was slightly overwhelmed with the financial side of things, my primary concern was my mums care which took over my life at that time, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I wish now I kept a diary of events, with help it would have made informative reading for anyone going through the same thing.

I will never understand why Alzheimer's does not warrant funding.
Someone who can't walk, can't talk, feed, wash, dress, is a danger to themselves and those around them, why are they treated differently to say someone who has cancer (I know, I know, cancer is a terrible disease and I'm not undermining it and the effects it has) but is Alzheimer's really any different.

Tintagel, I have emptied my inbox.

Sue
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Old 4th January 2017, 18:01   #90 (permalink)
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Re: NHS & Social Care in Crisis!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sue & james View Post
Bill, we are using a firm of no win no fee solicitors.
Initially they told us it could take up to 2 years, but 4 years later we're still battling.
We have at last got to the stage where they have admitted that for the last 8 months of my mums life she was entitled to nursing care (funny how they never come to that conclusion at the time), but we reckon it's more like 2 years and our solicitors want to push for this.
The l/a are putting so many obstacles in our way.
We only managed to sell my mums home 2 months before she died, we had a bridging loan.
Upon the sale of the property we received a bill which was paid in full.
Our solicitors asked us for a breakdown of that final bill, which we didn't have.
My brother as executor got in touch with the la to request this information, which they refused because he didn't have probate ( we didn't get probate as there were no assets)
They told us to go down the freedom of information route, which we did, only to be refused again.
We have made a formal complaint, which will now lead to an enquiry, which we will hear the outcome of by the 16th January.

I'm the first to admit as I held POA I was slightly overwhelmed with the financial side of things, my primary concern was my mums care which took over my life at that time, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I wish now I kept a diary of events, with help it would have made informative reading for anyone going through the same thing.

I will never understand why Alzheimer's does not warrant funding.
Someone who can't walk, can't talk, feed, wash, dress, is a danger to themselves and those around them, why are they treated differently to say someone who has cancer (I know, I know, cancer is a terrible disease and I'm not undermining it and the effects it has) but is Alzheimer's really any different.

Tintagel, I have emptied my inbox.

Sue
My mum had to go into care because she got to where she didn't recognise either my dad, my sister, or me. When any of us tried to get her to go to bed or to have a shower ( needed several times a day as she had become doubly incontinent ) she got violent with whoever tried helping her.
The social services made the decision to put mum into a secure nursing home, with the local authority footing the bill.
When my dad died, I didn't have power of Attorney over mums affairs, so the local authority put an attachment on the property until such times as the property was sold.
It took almost two years to obtain power of Attorney, then almost another year to sell the house, as buyers were being frightened off because the local authority had the attachment on the house.
The house sold for £46,000.00 and immediately the local authority took over £20,000.00 off before any money was paid into the public guardianship account for mum.
The people who do this are totally above any sense of embarrassment/ guilt at taking this money, in fact the more or less treat you as a criminal.
Like others have mentioned mum and dad bought the house they had rented when they married, after the landlord died.
They got the house for £800.00 as sitting tenants. They struggled to buy it but their thoughts about it all along were " there will be a nest egg for you and your sister when we go"
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