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Old 12th January 2017, 00:44   #41 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

Quote:
Originally Posted by bickern View Post
I deleted that comment you quote just after posting so I presume you copied it before you went offline and did not review the thread when you came back, and spent ages replying. After all the time you took trying to think up an answer that was the best you could come up with? You surprise me. I also answered your question if you could understand it, obviously not.

What do you mean now for the final time?

You can't read post 37 where I concur 100% with that? You obviously have a problem understanding simple statements. I asked a simple question "so do you agree that Martin McGuinness should be held accountable or are you reluctant to do that?".

Are you going to answer that because I did indeed answer your question, and I am sure most people of normal intelligence drew the conclusion your question was answered. If you don't understand my post 37 was an answer then what more can I say?
As you have ignored mine and other people's posts about the situation in the North and as you have repeatedly refused to answer the question as to what you would have done in that situation,, we are all left with having to draw our own conclusions.
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Old 12th January 2017, 01:09   #42 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

Can you point me to where you asked me what I would have done in that situation? I do remember a question posed by you to CL asking him that question.

I replied to the question NOT asked to me what I wouldn't have done it was easier and that spelt out my position, you then replied with a question that I 100% concurred with, and I included a question for you to concur or disagree with.

Do keep up, and if you are going to accuse me of not answering a question at least have the curtesy to have actually asked ME the question.

To use your words "we are all left with having to draw our own conclusions" as to you being able to follow your own and others posts.

So I refer to the question I did indeed ask you. Feel free to choose any example I gave you.
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Old 12th January 2017, 13:08   #43 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

Quote:
Originally Posted by bickern View Post
Can you point me to where you asked me what I would have done in that situation? I do remember a question posed by you to CL asking him that question.

I replied to the question NOT asked to me what I wouldn't have done it was easier and that spelt out my position, you then replied with a question that I 100% concurred with, and I included a question for you to concur or disagree with.

Do keep up, and if you are going to accuse me of not answering a question at least have the curtesy to have actually asked ME the question.

To use your words "we are all left with having to draw our own conclusions" as to you being able to follow your own and others posts.

So I refer to the question I did indeed ask you. Feel free to choose any example I gave you.
You replied to the question in post 27 which was asked of another member by telling us what you wouldn't have done. So why could you not have told us what you would have done which was the question which was asked ? It is obvious that the question posed such difficulties for you that you choose to duck and dive instead.

So in order to avoid any further 'confusion' here is the question again.

What (Norman) would you have done if you, your family and friends were being abused and murdered by the British army and their Loyilists Terrorists friends and deprived of democracy ?

At this point in the discourse I am entitled to believe that you would have rolled over. It is a good job that the republican organisation was not infused with such yellowbellies or else they would still be rolling over. Anybody with a grain of common sense now know that it took violence to gain out of the British state any morcel of democracy for the Nationalist population, UNFORTUNATELY.
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Old 12th January 2017, 13:46   #44 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hanley View Post
So why could you not have told us what you would have done which was the question which was asked ?
Because, and I will try and type this slowly, you never asked me the question, you asked someone else, mine was a comment not an answer. Do you expect the whole forum to give you answers when you direct it to an individual?

Quick note, a reply is not necessarily an answer, and in my case it was a comment. It was a comment on what I would not have done. It would be up to the person you directed the question at, to reply to it. People can and will comment on something directed to someone else, but they have no obligation to do so. I hope this is a good education for you, it may help you in the future by understanding how things actually work and what normal intelligent people expect.

Dont say here is the question again, just apologise for accusing me of not answering a question you never posed to me. If you ask someone a question, in this case CL it is up to him to answer, when I post it is a comment, even where you come from that must be the standard logic. If you ask your wife a question do you expect her brother to answer? He may comment on it or he may decide to answer but it would be your wife you addressed it to.

When you get around to answering the question I did in fact address to you, then by all means ask me to answer your question. You do not have special rights that you decide not to answer a question then ask someone one. Answer the question as I posed to you. I will then accept you asking me a question in return, it's how it normally works in debate. May be not where you come from I don't know but in most of the civilised world it is how it works. Stops people being evasive such as you are being.

So provide an answer, then by all means ask me the question you never asked me. The question you did ask me I answered, I said I agreed 100%. As I said and repeat (because you seem to have trouble understanding and absorbing the written word), I will of course answer the question when you ask me it, in the correct order, I assure you I wont flannel or be evasive. It may even be a lengthy reply, as I am not usually known for my conciseness. LOL.

Why won't I concede the high ground and let you ask me a question after I answered yours and you chose not to reciprocate? I will explain, because you will then not answer mine, as I imagine the whole audience of this thread will have worked out, except you.

It amazes me how some people expect they should have special rights, how they have one rule for themselves and another for the rest of the world. Well you do not have special rights to be heard and have your questions answered when you choose to ignore questions already posed to you.

I could of course type out the chronological order of questions posed to me, then me to you, and me answering, but do I really need to?

Notice how I answer but you flannel and evade? Big difference eh.
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Old 12th January 2017, 14:37   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

Quote:
Originally Posted by bickern View Post
Because, and I will try and type this slowly, you never asked me the question, you asked someone else, mine was a comment not an answer. Do you expect the whole forum to give you answers when you direct it to an individual?

Quick note, a reply is not necessarily an answer, and in my case it was a comment. It was a comment on what I would not have done. It would be up to the person you directed the question at, to reply to it. People can and will comment on something directed to someone else, but they have no obligation to do so. I hope this is a good education for you, it may help you in the future by understanding how things actually work and what normal intelligent people expect.

Dont say here is the question again, just apologise for accusing me of not answering a question you never posed to me. If you ask someone a question, in this case CL it is up to him to answer, when I post it is a comment, even where you come from that must be the standard logic. If you ask your wife a question do you expect her brother to answer? He may comment on it or he may decide to answer but it would be your wife you addressed it to

When you get around to answering the question I did in fact address to you, then by all means ask me to answer your question. You do not have special rights that you decide not to answer a question then ask someone one. Answer the question as I posed to you. I will then accept you asking me a question in return, it's how it normally works in debate. May be not where you come from I don't know but in most of the civilised world it is how it works. Stops people being evasive such as you are being.

So provide an answer, then by all means ask me the question you never asked me. The question you did ask me I answered, I said I agreed 100%. As I said and repeat (because you seem to have trouble understanding and absorbing the written word), I will of course answer the question when you ask me it, in the correct order, I assure you I wont flannel or be evasive.

Why won't I concede the high ground and let you ask me a question after I answered yours and you chose not to reciprocate? I will explain, because you will then not answer mine, as I imagine the whole audience of this thread will have worked out, except you.

I could of course type out the chronological order of questions posed to me, then me to you, and me answering, but do I really need to?

Notice how I answer but you flannel and evade? Big difference eh.
Well Norman you seem to have devoted a lot of space and time here on the subject of education. I am forever grateful to you.

As regards to your question as to whether MMG should be prosecuted, this has to be looked at in the context of whether he and the Republican movement were forced into a situation whereby they had to react and defend themselves. As an example if a soldier kills inocent and unarmed civilians then it is clearly murder. However if that same soldier was being attacked then it wouldn't be regarded as a crime. So if you choose to answer MY question then that may go a long way to answering yours. It is also worth remembering that a totally new prison was created for and filled with Republican prisoners although I am not able to comment as to whether MMG was ever one of its guests.

I am not expecting a coherent answer from you at this stage as for quite a long time now you seem to have problems understanding it, instead choosing to divert in any way possible.

Back to work now, break over.
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Old 12th January 2017, 15:35   #46 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

Looking at the Belfast Telegraph "A YOUNG west Belfast man, who lost a leg after a so-called 'punishment' beating and car accident, has been kneecapped AGAIN by the IRA.

A YOUNG west Belfast man, who lost a leg after a so-called 'punishment' beating and car accident, has been kneecapped AGAIN by the IRA."

Man who lost leg kneecapped again! - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

The violence has not exactly abated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hanley View Post
So tell us all Saint Laurence what would you have done had you been placed in the situation that MMG and the Catholic population in the North were in. ?
By the way, that was the question you posed to CL, I then commented:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bickern View Post
I know I wouldn't have kneecapped people of my own community and blown up people of my own religeon, including women and children, stuff like that.
That actually does more or less sum up as an answer to some although it was a comment not an answer.

I used the term educating to you because it is a term you used to CL, therefore I thought you also needed educating.

You can't put a context of they, the republican movement, were forced to kill innocent people with bombs etc, when they, the republican movement were obviously targeting civilians not soldiers in many of their actions, the times they attacked the military or security forces that may and probably does stand ground, but they did not just do that did they?

If it again helps I will use some of your words, if MM was involved in the deaths of innocent and unarmed civilians then it is clearly murder. However if MM was being attacked then it wouldn't be regarded as a crime.

Of course I do not know exactly which ones he was responsible for, if any, but if he was, and proof exists - then my question still stands "do you agree that Martin McGuinness should be held accountable", I will slightly rephrase that if it helps. Do you agree that Martin McGuinness should be held accountable for murders that were aimed at civilians? I await your answer to the original or the rephrased one.

You see the difference between acceptable targets I presume, and being of a different faith hardly qualifies as an acceptable target. Many murders were committed and innocent targets were at the receiving end of many of the bombs for instance that you cant pick and choose and put a context on it.

The actual context of the question is when they targeted innocents. Why I have to say that I don't know because I imagine it was plainly apparent to most that were following.

So just answer the question as put, or as revised for clarity then everyone will know where you stand (yes, I am borrowing from you again, because hopefully you will understand the rules you put others under).

I also am not diverting, I think most have understood my stance and position with you, and anyone that has been a member on here for any length of time will know that when I reciprocate and give you an answer it will not be the abridged version nor diverting. Diverting is something you practice not me.
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Old 12th January 2017, 15:46   #47 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

Was loathed to get involved with your discussion with Michael on this as your "cut n paste" expertise on our situation is frankly pathetic. You haven't a clue

I will just give you a proper insight as someone on the ground solely into the subject of kneecapping

Your cut n paste knowledge won't tell you ( 80s90s) I remember well on 4 occasions the local woolly faces saying they were stopping punishment attacks- there was uproar and on each occasion angry locals-including many women picketed SF local advice Centre to have them reinstated

This sort of underlines your problem of having scant knowledge of the issues apart from cut n paste across the net

You haven't a clue why there were kneecappings, who ordered them, why was there such support for them, why did a normal community go along with such barbarity, why did the " security forces " encourage such acts, what role was being played by sec services around crime/info gathering-let alone the fact that MMG was one of the OCs opposed to them!

Now I have deliberately just kept this to the punishment attacks issue as I couldn't be bothered with going into another pointless debate about what happened on the ground with someone who believes cut n paste is more accurate than someone who lives all their life amongst this

Suffice to say the old adage of " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" is so apt
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Old 12th January 2017, 16:03   #48 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

Suffice to say, what you say has nothing to do with my discussion with Micheal. I am sure he does not need your help, but then again...

As for the kneecappings the point was the violence not the reasons behind them, whether justified or not. "The violence has not exactly abated" was the point. What you find acceptable behaviour on your own ground has nothing to do with what is acceptable in the whole of the UK.
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Old 12th January 2017, 16:05   #49 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

Where did I say it was acceptable plus yet again you underline your lack of insight even on the most basic points- this place God curse it is absolutely NOTHING like any other part of the UK whatsoever

I think you will find for the past 700 years that's been part of the problem............
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Old 12th January 2017, 16:10   #50 (permalink)
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Re: Martin McGuinness

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Where did I say it was acceptable plus yet again you underline your lack of insight even on the most basic points- this place God curse it is absolutely NOTHING like any other part of the UK whatsoever

I think you will find that's part of the problem............
I never said you said it was acceptable. Read the post.

As for living all their lives amongst something does not make you an expert, that is like saying a Palestinian on the Gaza strip understands Israel's problem;
what you have is a biased viewpoint based on YOUR experiences and listening to like minded people. Not the same thing.

What I am commenting on in this thread is someones accountability, not the whole NI troubles. Christ you would need a whole forum for that not a thread.
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