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Old 18th April 2017, 12:52   #121 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

Quote:
Originally Posted by bal canavar View Post
In answer to what has been posted ......

Well the anti-Erdogan supporters have been called a lot of names by Erdogan apologists, looters, marauders, hooligans ( “çapulcu,” ) they have been called traitors and terrorists etc, so now being blamed and called the complaining liberal , elite, intelligentsia for calling foul on the voting system , must be a step up.

So the nearly 24mil people of allowed vote , are allleged to be "complaining" " liberal, elite, intelligentsia who don't believe in a democracy" ... because they called foul, on this referendum ................ Well, it seems they are joined in this belief, by the independent International observers, having seen it first hand, the breaking of international elections norms .... like the lack as a voter to hear, read, be advised or see , both sides of the argument, to make an informed choice before placing thier vote . Or the illegal act of election overseers the YSK in changing election rules 1 hr before the end of the election ..... but we are not meant to complain ...

It was an Erdogan ego overconfidence why he didn't make " a better job " of the rigging. ref... his poor showing. Having thought after spending the biggest budget on his YES campaign,, against the NO campaign, not forgetting putting the full force of his mighty propaganda machine against the NO campaign. Led him to this overconfidence, even to predict and believe he would get a 60-61% percent of a yes vote ... he didn't predict the so-called alleged "complaining" (
to use the trending, and derogatory name to put down any opposing voice ) the " liberal", "elite" would overcome some of the obstacles thrown up and still vote and show nearly 24mil votes against . Can you imagine what the count would of been, without the Erdogan blocking tactics .
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .
And ... as Steve Akasya said the professionals agree.

OSCE: Turkey referendum 'contested on an unlevel playing field'

Observers have said the Turkish referendum fell short of international standards, arguing both sides did not have equal campaign opportunities. Turkey's president said monitors should not criticize, but know their place.

OSCE: Turkey referendum ?contested on an unlevel playing field? | Europe | DW.COM | 17.04.2017
Hi Bal. We in the UK can only go on what the media presents to us but I have to say that Erdogan's speech to his supporters yesterday left me disappointed and concerned. I do think he is a consummate politician but I did not like the tone yesterday and I don't think it bodes well for Turkish unity. Yesterday's speech in my opinion was geared to promotion of nationalism, Islamism and Sultanism. For the first time I began to feel less comfortable about my future in Turkey- his anti West rhetoric and crusader references made me feel decidedly uncomfortable .Is this another volte - face example of an anticipated liberal reformer getting pissed by power?
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Old 18th April 2017, 15:01   #122 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

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Originally Posted by WIDDRINGTON View Post
Hi Bal. We in the UK can only go on what the media presents to us but I have to say that Erdogan's speech to his supporters yesterday left me disappointed and concerned. I do think he is a consummate politician but I did not like the tone yesterday and I don't think it bodes well for Turkish unity. Yesterday's speech in my opinion was geared to promotion of nationalism, Islamism and Sultanism. For the first time I began to feel less comfortable about my future in Turkey- his anti West rhetoric and crusader references made me feel decidedly uncomfortable .Is this another volte - face example of an anticipated liberal reformer getting pissed by power?
I suppose what makes people uncomfortable is a relative thing, depending on thier own values and feelings about things that make them feel uncomfortable, but wouldn't think you, or anyone should/would fear on a personal level danger in Turkey, if you felt that ... But understand what you mean ..... Leaders, regimes, governments with anti-West rhetoric don't always reflect the feelings of the people they rule, and values, and certainly not of the 24million that voted against him .... e.g. Iran the people are welcoming to visitors
whilst thier regime reviles the West , but like I said can understand your concern.


To answer your question in part yes the power has certainly fuelled an already large ego into some sort f self-belief of messiah complex status by him and promoted by his supporters.

Quote Is this another volte - face example of an anticipated liberal reformer getting pissed by power?

But as for a volte face ,I don't believe it is , because if people had been following the posts of ShirleyTR , Charlotte , LauraB , Kingfisher and even Kemerkid etc over the years.............he is exactly the same person you describe now with all the Anti's .......as he was then, just he was more surreptitious about it then, on his quest to gain power , and warned by the above people of what he would become if given power, the only difference is now it's in the open, he feels strongly fuelled by the extension of his powers .

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Old 18th April 2017, 16:52   #123 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

51.41% of the 85% turnout is 43.7%.
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Old 19th April 2017, 17:47   #124 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

What a surprise, ( it is not,) the YSK. The board meant to oversee the fairness of the election. the same board , that changed the counting procedure 1 hour before the end of the ballot ...

rejects all referendum appeals, including the appeal against thier own actions during the Ballot.

After this refusal to uphold the complaints .......... The IZMIR Bar Association has decided they acted un-lawfully in their actions and have taken out a Criminal Complaint in the courts ...........against the YSK board for misconduct.....

And the AKP have slandered the International observers of the referendum, who criticized the running of the ballot as being PKK supporters...... Anyone, it seems who criticize in Erdogan/akp win are always portrayed as traitors of the country.
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Old 19th April 2017, 19:22   #125 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

Very authoritarian Bal , what else do people expect from the Pasha.

Steve
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Old 19th April 2017, 19:40   #126 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

It seems the case of the unstamped ballots is coming to light ....

.................................................. ................................

How did fraud occur in the Turkish referendum

Over at the “Washington Examiner“, I looked at some of the problems with Turkey’s April 16 referendum on constitutional amendments which changed Turkey’s system of government and eviscerated the independent judiciary.
In the wake of the referendum’s purported approval, independent observers have concluded that the vote was neither free nor fair.

Apparently, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party (AKP) arranged illegally with the Supreme Election Board and with several voting districts around the country to give ballots out to AKP people the day before the voting.

These were given to poor people and others wishing to earn money for a vote. The ballots were marked ‘yes’ in front but they lacked the official stamp issued at the polling location on the back.

This was done deliberately because those people were to use the pre-prepared ballot in the ballot box and then return the ballot with the official seal which they received at the polling station. They then received between 350-400 Turkish liras, about 100 dollars.

If it seemed that the “no” vote was ahead in initial tallying, then the Supreme Election Board would rule the referendum invalid due to a large number of unstamped ballots. But if it looked like “yes” could win, then those votes would be declared valid.

https://www.aei.org/publication/how-...sh-referendum/

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Old 20th April 2017, 11:40   #127 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

What do you mean by "return the ballot", some kind of a postal vote?
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Old 22nd April 2017, 12:02   #128 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

Did anyone realise that there was no question on the ballot paper, just a choice of 'yes' or 'no' ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39622440
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Old 22nd April 2017, 13:01   #129 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

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What do you mean by "return the ballot", some kind of a postal vote?
Hi Eiza, I think what happened was that, Mr A took a non-stamped but marked (Evet) voting paper into the polling station, collected an officially stamped non-marked one from the polling station. Then Mr A posted the non-stamped but already marked ballot paper into the ballot box. Mr A then exits polling station hands the officially stamped ballot paper he has just collected from the official polling station, to his contact outside & receives his dosh.

That's why the decision to count ballot papers without any official stamp was so important.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 16:41   #130 (permalink)
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Re: Turkish Referendum

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They then received between 350-400 Turkish liras, about 100 dollars.
Where did all this money come from, AKP central funds or local?
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