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Old 2nd October 2017, 19:49   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

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Originally Posted by immac View Post
Thank you. That is the nicest thing said to me today.

I´ve just baked fruit muffins, so off to the balcony with my morning coffee before they cool.

Ian
I bet you say that to all of the boys .

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Old 3rd October 2017, 02:52   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

It is 4:30 and not many boys about, but will soon be starting cheese muffins*; I have promised to take some bakery to the mechanics in my garage.

But to answer your question: I was not suggesting that this was orchestrated by Brussels, of course, but I don´t think you will have heard much condemnation over the last 24 hours coming from Junker and his pals. We have citizens being beaten by National Police for having the temerity to want to vote; local police stand by helplessly; Franco is not dead, says one newsreader; only comment from Brussels, is that the rule of law must be upheld.

Can you imagine the reaction if this was happening in some Third World country, or Turkey: the Brussels lot would be wringing their hands, wailing and gnashing their teeth at the brutality of a regime opposing the will of the people. They would then point out that the Spanish constitution is unfair because (written by Franco´s lot) it can not be changed unless there is a 75% majority - impossible in the Spanish system.

Spanish Government can not help but condemn and blame the people, even in the face of news media showing old men and women with their heads split open by riot police. Does Junker plan to censure the Spanish Govt? No, he praises them for upholding democracy and opposing the anti-democratic voters.

Ian

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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:05   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

Now surely Ian , should Juncker or any other EU issue forth , anti eu voices would be stridently objecting to EU interference in National matters . Not something ukip and leave would champion .

It is a national issue , that can only be resolved within Spain , and Spanish hearts and minds .

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Old 4th October 2017, 03:18   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

A king complains that democratic principles have been broken...Catalan referendum: Vote illegal - King Felipe .
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Old 4th October 2017, 08:35   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

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A king complains that democratic principles have been broken...Catalan referendum: Vote illegal - King Felipe .
That's so funny Sleepy; the only funny thing about this. Anybody know the Catalan for UDI: el maceta el tetera.
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Old 4th October 2017, 12:28   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

Quote:
Originally Posted by immac View Post
It is 4:30 and not many boys about, but will soon be starting cheese muffins*; I have promised to take some bakery to the mechanics in my garage.

But to answer your question: I was not suggesting that this was orchestrated by Brussels, of course, but I don´t think you will have heard much condemnation over the last 24 hours coming from Junker and his pals. We have citizens being beaten by National Police for having the temerity to want to vote; local police stand by helplessly; Franco is not dead, says one newsreader; only comment from Brussels, is that the rule of law must be upheld.

Can you imagine the reaction if this was happening in some Third World country, or Turkey: the Brussels lot would be wringing their hands, wailing and gnashing their teeth at the brutality of a regime opposing the will of the people. They would then point out that the Spanish constitution is unfair because (written by Franco´s lot) it can not be changed unless there is a 75% majority - impossible in the Spanish system.

Spanish Government can not help but condemn and blame the people, even in the face of news media showing old men and women with their heads split open by riot police. Does Junker plan to censure the Spanish Govt? No, he praises them for upholding democracy and opposing the anti-democratic voters.

Ian

*ps Cinnabons this afternoon.
Good post Ian, no the EU didn't orchestrate this per se, they just stood back, did/said Nothing to stop it or condemn it, that says it all really....

The EU still refuses to condemn the violence Spain meted out to the Catalans! Such blatant, breath-taking hypocrisy when people don't do what the EU wants them to do! Now; had the Catalans not been a member of the EU via it's association with Spain the EU would have been All Over them like a rash! As Indeed they are with NI now they are leaving the EU with the rest of the UK......

One is an attempting a 'land-grab', the other is trying ensure a de-facto 'Devolved' government doesn't succeed in breaking away from the EU. Catalan is very rich, Spain's economy is Very vulnerable.... It's all about the Money, Land & Power - nothing more, nothing less.......

Anyone remember Kosovo, Yugoslavia, Serbia?, just to mention a few of the countries that were targeted by the EU..........

"Kosovo stance[edit]
On 17 February 2008 representatives of the people of Kosovo, acting outside the UNMIK's PISG framework (not representing the Assembly of Kosovo or any other of these institutions),[14] issued a declaration of independence establishing the Republic of Kosovo.

On 22 July 2010 the International Court of Justice ruled that the declaration of independence of 17 February 2008 did not violate general international law, Security Council resolution 1244 (1999) or the Constitutional Framework, because the authors of the declaration, who named themselves "representatives of the people of Kosovo" were not bound by those documents. The declaration of independence was legal.

A key argument on the Kosovo side was that Article 1 of the Helsinki Final Act makes the continued territorial integrity of sovereignty of states conditional upon their willingness and ability to guarantee the fundamental human rights also defined in the Final Act"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...esolution_1244
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Old 4th October 2017, 12:33   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

Crisis over! Tony Bliar is going to sort it out.

Tony Blair could step into Catalonia crisis as he?s tipped to be MEDIATOR | World | News | Express.co.uk

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Old 5th October 2017, 08:48   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

So Madrid will not talk to the Catalan representatives and sooner or later Independence will be declared, any thoughts on what happens next?
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Old 5th October 2017, 08:53   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

Madrids next step will probably be to remove power from the local administration in Catalonia effectively imposing " direct rule"

Big mistake

I think in the medium term a resolution will be to give the Catalans a lot more self rule including the powers stripped back over past few years but ultimately as in most of these independence by stealth situations Catalonia will get its independence
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Old 5th October 2017, 09:49   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Catalan Referendum

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Yip
Using the state police force to beat people to a pulp for asking for Civil Rights would never be something the British would do........


The struggle for Catalan is a just one and spookily appears in some ways a mirror image of the way in the early days Civil Rights activists here in Belfast/ Derry were treated in a similar way by the British state

Barcelona 2017- Derry 1969


Attachment 15767

Attachment 15768
You are not being fair to the Spanish authorities Philip by making this comparison. The British used live bullets to quell the thirst of the Nationalist Community in N.I. for Civil Rights. That of course was just the start of it. I don't believe we will ever see the Spanish authorities do this against the Catalonians.
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