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Old 10th February 2018, 20:12   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

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Originally Posted by esb1841 View Post
Ireland imports 90pc of its oil and gas from UK - so energy must be near top of list of Brexit priorities

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...-35654758.html
The world is awash with oil and the West/Southern coast of Ireland is awash with oil wells which have been capped waiting for a market to return.

People talk of new markets and I am sure that there are plenty. I am wondering how British farmers will react when they see American and Argentina beef or New Zealand lamb dumped on the UK market. I am wondering how manufacturers will react when they see Chinese goods flooding the UK market. I am sure that these countries and others will love to do trade deals. However you won't be operating on a level playing field and will have no means by which to level it. This level playing field is what the EU membership gives countries.

I see the Japanese are already getting cold feet and are demanding answers. The main reason that these manufacturers located to Britain in the first place was so they could sell into Europe tariff free.
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Old 10th February 2018, 20:20   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

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Originally Posted by Akasya View Post
The Eu has to agree nothing , the UK want to leave but still enjoy some benefits . Members do not have to agree to this . If it comes to a take it or leave it then the economic cost will hit everyone. The Uk will face absorbing 100% of their costs , EU members will bear a share , who will be hardest hit ?

Steve
I believe that the 'transitional period ', as I understand it, was requested by the U.K. This was to enable it to line up new markets rather going over a cliff edge. I can never remember the EU stating that it was a given. Barnier is now calling it into question.
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Old 10th February 2018, 20:31   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

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Originally Posted by mollag View Post
I have heard the name of Saoirse mentioned with regard to Free State budgie smuggling, it's a fact!
If there is a Customs Border I can see Philip cancelling his move to Spain. Somehow I can't see him moving away from that sort of money making machine.
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Old 10th February 2018, 20:46   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

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Originally Posted by Michael Hanley View Post
When the deal was done in order to move the talks to the second phase everyone seemed happy. There was to be NO BORDER CONTROLS and NO CUSTOMS. Davis got slapped down shortly afterwards for suggesting that it was merely a proposal.

I strongly suspected at the time that it was a fudge and a ruse. After all how could the UK deliver this and at the same time stating that they don't want to be part of the Customs Union. A play on words is what we have been getting since then with expressions like 'customs arrangements'.

I don't think that either Dublin or Brussels will be impressed with the current backsliding and it will put the UK in a position where nobody will trust them to keep to any agreement. They are of course held to ransom by the people who can only say NO. The UK has got a weak government and a weaker leader.
The 1st Phase is still subject to the subject to the caveat by both sides that "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed", meaning that if agreement cannot be reached on the future relationship between the UK and EU then Phase 1 may not be implemented.
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Old 10th February 2018, 21:02   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hanley View Post
The world is awash with oil and the West/Southern coast of Ireland is awash with oil wells which have been capped waiting for a market to return.

People talk of new markets and I am sure that there are plenty. I am wondering how British farmers will react when they see American and Argentina beef or New Zealand lamb dumped on the UK market. I am wondering how manufacturers will react when they see Chinese goods flooding the UK market. I am sure that these countries and others will love to do trade deals. However you won't be operating on a level playing field and will have no means by which to level it. This level playing field is what the EU membership gives countries.

I see the Japanese are already getting cold feet and are demanding answers. The main reason that these manufacturers located to Britain in the first place was so they could sell into Europe tariff free.
According to this report oil wells in Ireland are being capped due to disappointing” drill results.

A Dublin company has abandoned its prospective oil well off the Kerry coast
Providence Resources will now look to drill another well in the sea south of Cork.

https://fora.ie/providence-resources...91851-Sep2017/

Shares dive as Providence hits water in Irish oil well
Irish oil and gas explorer currently plugging and abandoning the well prospec

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...well-1.3216700
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Old 10th February 2018, 21:06   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

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Originally Posted by esb1841 View Post
The 1st Phase is still subject to the subject to the caveat by both sides that "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed", meaning that if agreement cannot be reached on the future relationship between the UK and EU then Phase 1 may not be implemented.
'nothing is agreed until everything is agreed' seems to me something like 'I haven't got a clue as to what I want or what I am going to get'.

The Border deal was done and agreed upon by all sides and had to be so before talks could move to phase 2. It was never a 'nothing is agreed' sort of deal, at least not outside Downing Street. It sounds to me more like a dishonest concoction by the Tories and the DUP in order to move talks forward and to later start with the word games.
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Old 10th February 2018, 21:51   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

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Originally Posted by Michael Hanley View Post
'nothing is agreed until everything is agreed' seems to me something like 'I haven't got a clue as to what I want or what I am going to get'.

The Border deal was done and agreed upon by all sides and had to be so before talks could move to phase 2. It was never a 'nothing is agreed' sort of deal, at least not outside Downing Street. It sounds to me more like a dishonest concoction by the Tories and the DUP in order to move talks forward and to later start with the word games.
The EU issued these document in April 2017

2. Negotiations under Article 50 TEU will be conducted in transparency and as a single package. In accordance with the principle that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, individual items cannot be settled separately.

European Council (Art. 50) guidelines for Brexit negotiations - Consilium

Nothing to do with the Tories or the DUP
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Old 10th February 2018, 21:59   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

Quote:
Originally Posted by esb1841 View Post
The EU issued these document in April 2017

2. Negotiations under Article 50 TEU will be conducted in transparency and as a single package. In accordance with the principle that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, individual items cannot be settled separately.

European Council (Art. 50) guidelines for Brexit negotiations - Consilium

Nothing to do with the Tories or the DUP
Can't disagree with any of that but this is not what I am saying. The Tories (once the DUP were happy with it) offered a deal on the Border issue which was acceptable to all. The backsliding has now started on that deal. So the question is, could the deal have been made in bad faith ?
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Old 10th February 2018, 22:12   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

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Originally Posted by Michael Hanley View Post
Can't disagree with any of that but this is not what I am saying. The Tories (once the DUP were happy with it) offered a deal on the Border issue which was acceptable to all. The backsliding has now started on that deal. So the question is, could the deal have been made in bad faith ?
The media reported the event incorrectly a political agreement was made between the Tories and the DUP which allowed May to go to the EU and make a
commitment to the EU on Phase 1 which prompted the following statement from Both the UK and EU

Joint report from EU and UK Brexit negotiators
This report, presented jointly by the negotiators of the European Union (Union) and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UK), records the progress made in the first phase of negotiations under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (TEU) on the UK's orderly withdrawal from the Union.

Both Parties have reached agreement in principle across the following three areas under consideration in the first phase of negotiations, on which further detail is set out in this report:
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Old 11th February 2018, 05:30   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Border between NI and Republic

Quote:
Originally Posted by cork laurence View Post
A similar issue arrived when they built the channel tunnel, Where would the customs be? Who would have jurisdiction over an incident inside the tunnel? It was sorted fairly easily.
It seems to be a stalling tactic by the Irish Government.
Absolutely right! This was not an issue until some looked at as an opportunity to scupper Brexit, then all common sense evaporated.

People who want to talk this down raise the idea of physical barriers and scanners on the border line. That is really old fashioned thinking based upon lack of knowledge; new border controls, such as now operate in Turkey (for example) rely upon forward notification (the manifest) of what is on each load. This is sent to Customs before the truck departs its garage, and then, based upon intelligence and past history, the load will either be waved through or searched.

Trusted hauliers will have few hold-ups at the border; dodgy dealers will be stopped every time. It is in the haulier´s interest to be honest and not be caught cheating, and keep themselves on the "trusted" list.

The same will apply to the English Channel. Again scare mongers talk about 20 mile lorry jams while every truck is searched - it is just ignorant, or scare mongering; no regular haulier will set off without making sure his load can travel. The one-off trip, or booze cruise, might expect to be stopped every time.

Also, the check point does not need to be at the docks, or actual border, it can be 10 miles down the road. Once a truck is checked and sealed, it is free to travel; if the manifest is trusted they will know that before they start the journey.

Ian
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