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Old 15th May 2018, 23:08   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bookworms View Post
The point you are missing is that by & large the food that was "withdrawn" was not the food that was generally eaten by those who starved

If you had a pig to sell what were you going to do? You couldn't sell it to the starving, they had no money so you sold it to whoever had money

I've no idea what the quantity of food exported from Ireland was during those years but I can't think that even had it had all been philanthropically donated to the poor, thus impoverishing the owners of the food, it would have been sufficient to make a huge difference.

I initially replied to Emeralds comment that the English caused the famine. We did not , we may not have reacted as we would today but we did not cause the famine.
As already stated Bookworm, it was the blight which caused the Famine. To try to make a case that Britain wasn't subsequently responsible for starving circa two million people to death is nothing less than an attempt at rewriting history.

You say that the people sold their produce, however it would be more accurate to state that the produce was taken from the people to pay their rent. When they had nothing left to give they were evicted and the houses burned.

Several esteemed historians have written on the Famine. There is no further point in debating such a huge and complex subject within the confines of TLF.
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Old 15th May 2018, 23:33   #62 (permalink)
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Re: Éire Medieval Abortion Law

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Originally Posted by Michael Hanley View Post
Not sure how the question will be worded, but if it is a straight 'yes' or 'no' then we might end up with the same disagreements as we have over Brexit. As stated previously, I wouldn't like to see abortion being made available as a lifestyle choice. There is no doubt that the current archaic law needs to go because the world has changed and laws should reflect that. Perhaps new legislation could be introduced to reflect changing times without opening the floodgates.



Straight YES or no ........... .but ambiguous is that the "proposal of change" only a draft has been seen and can be tinkered with ... and knowing politicians don't like losing votes and with it being so close might water the draft down to please all, but the women involved.

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Old 16th May 2018, 06:43   #63 (permalink)
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Re: Éire Medieval Abortion Law

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Originally Posted by Michael Hanley View Post

Several esteemed historians have written on the Famine. There is no further point in debating such a huge and complex subject within the confines of TLF.
I didn't bring the subject up, those that fail to learn from history are doomed to continue to make the same mistakes

The only 2 bodies that could have done anything were the Catholic Church or the British Government .

I don't see many mea culpas from the Church
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Old 16th May 2018, 19:53   #64 (permalink)
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Re: Éire Medieval Abortion Law

As in 1983, the Irish abortion referendum sets emotion against reason

In Dublin, it is impossible to ignore the graphic and emotive posters plastered to every lamp post.


In 1983, the Irish people voted to in effect make abortion illegal. The Eighth Amendment, or more specifically article 40.3.3 of Irish constitution, couldn’t possibly be more ambiguous. It states: “The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.”

It took a landmark case in 1992 to interpret the unclear wording. The Irish Supreme Court ruled that abortion is permissible where the continuation of the pregnancy poses a real and substantial risk to the life, as opposed to the health, of the mother and where such a risk could not be averted except by means of an abortion.


In other words, a woman can only be granted an abortion if her situation is so grave that she will die if she does not have one. Even then, the request is not always granted. In 2012, Savita Halappanavar died of septicaemia after being denied a termination, despite the fact she was miscarrying, because doctors were able to find a foetal heartbeat.

Ireland’s laws on abortion are some of the most restrictive in the world. The United Nations Human Rights Committee which says the country’s law is “cruel, degrading and inhuman treatment of women”.

Women who have made the decision they need a termination have few choices. Those who can afford to travel for treatment go overseas to receive proper medical assistance. But for many women, this simply isn’t possible. Instead they are forced to criminalise themselves and take unsafe, unregulated medication which they purchase online.

continued
https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...against-reason
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Old 16th May 2018, 21:00   #65 (permalink)
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Re: Éire Medieval Abortion Law

Raped, pregnant - tough luck!
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Old 18th May 2018, 14:58   #66 (permalink)
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Re: Éire Medieval Abortion Law

Was it not enough in 2012 Savita after being refused an abortion when she developed sepsis. SAVITA HALAPPANAVAR DIED on 28 October 2012 at University Hospital Galway. She was 17 weeks pregnant. The cause of death was recorded as severe sepsis, E.coli in the bloodstream and a miscarriage at 17 weeks.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar warns No voters it is 'only a matter of time' before woman bleeds to death without care after taking unsafe abortion pill

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/iris...ns-no-12556866
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Old 20th May 2018, 14:02   #67 (permalink)
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Re: Éire Medieval Abortion Law

Surely its wrong to use the pulpit and his standing for political means? The Bishop of Cork appeals for a NO vote to repeal the law to amend the Abortion law. Comparing the child in the womb to wildlife....


He also Quoted to add the guilt if you voted YES ..... Quote Pope Francis, the bishop said the Catholic Church had always taught that abortion was gravely wrong and was not compatible with people’s Catholic faith, and if people vote Yes on May 25th, they were actually voting for abortion.


Bishop of Cork in his mass, says repeal will leave unborn more vulnerable than wildlife
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...life-1.3501935
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Old 20th May 2018, 14:19   #68 (permalink)
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Re: Éire Medieval Abortion Law

Interesting debate on the radio highlighting that should the referendum hopefully pass we will have part of this island yet again leading the way re equality issues and the other UK part still mired in the past both with its god squad laws re gay rights and unfortunately we will potentially have women going North to South to have their rights on abortion respected too
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Old 20th May 2018, 15:57   #69 (permalink)
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Re: Éire Medieval Abortion Law

To an uncharitable observer it might appear that the Catholic Bishops are keen on protecting the supply of children to follow the belief some Clergy have " suffer little children , to come unto me "

Steve
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Old 20th May 2018, 16:00   #70 (permalink)
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Re: Éire Medieval Abortion Law

Some vile unforgivable abuse and equally disgusting cover ups re church child abuse

I do personally however feel it unfair and irrational to tar all the church with one brush.

By far most abusers are kids relatives/ parents. As someone without kids should I view all parents as possible/ probable pedos?
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