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Old 7th November 2018, 11:16   #251 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

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Originally Posted by Camden View Post
Who mentioned cute things being Killed? that is just said to trivialise the opposing argument, I never mentioned cute ... natural kill isn't cute or pretty but I am still for it as natural .
Your opposing argument realy doesent need trivialising is its already very week


1: Lloyds have made no offer to cover rewilding of 1000s of Lynx and theres no way if they did offer to do so it would be free. Insurance companies are there to show a profit. It will cost the public by way of a policy fee or by way of direct compensation.


2: Contraception is too expensive full stop. Suggestion that science will possibly make it more affordable in the future is just wishful thinking


3: It will be impossible to rewild enough Lynx Wolves etc into the UK to make a significant impact on the cull requirements. The limiting factors being cost of implementation, cost of management and the most limiting of all, the lack of suitable woodland areas in the UK


4: the claimed fear hunters have of this issue in the UK is non existent as deer hunters understand the above issues.


As said id suggest most deer hunters would welcome the reintroduction of the Lynx
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Old 7th November 2018, 14:05   #252 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

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Originally Posted by Chasey View Post
Your opposing argument realy doesent need trivialising is its already very week

Yes, Chasey, reputable Conservationists Science, and proven tests is Trivial? To you maybe


1: Lloyds have made no offer to cover rewilding of 1000s of Lynx and theres no way if they did offer to do so it would be free. Insurance companies are there to show a profit. It will cost the public by way of a policy fee or by way of direct compensation.

I never said they did..... but why would they not insure any rollout? That would only happen if they lost money by having to pay out compensation for significant losses on the trial, and if that happened there would be no rollout to insure .....

Lloyd are experts at this business and have said they accessed extensive scientific data which must have included past successful trials ....as they wouldn't have been deaf to opposition claims, and after all this their risk assessment came out in favor of Insuring ( Lloyds had more access to the Science and info than you admit yourself had and were disadvantaged in finding on the internet.)


There were other benefits and savings presented Northumberland trial analysis by consulting firm AECOM found using the animals as a natural method of controlling deer would benefit other wildlife.

It found the lynx would allow forests and woodlands to regenerate naturally and reinvigorate ecosystems also an estimated 980,000 by reducing the number of deer-related road traffic accidents, the study said.

Of course, there would be a policy fee they are not a charity but now you want to change the claim the Question of Taxpayers paying compensation for vast losses of Sheep even posting the Norweign claim




2: Contraception is too expensive full stop. Suggestion that science will possibly make it more affordable in the future is just wishful thinking

How many time have we heard that about Science by naysayers. Chasey quote "Suggestion that science will possibly make it more affordable in the future is just wishful thinking " Didn't they say that about Computers? still think the world is flat Mark?

3: It will be impossible to rewild enough Lynx Wolves etc into the UK to make a significant impact on the cull requirements. The limiting factors being cost of implementation, cost of management and the most limiting of all, the lack of suitable woodland areas in the UK

Explained

4: the claimed fear hunters have of this issue in the UK is non existent as deer hunters understand the above issues.

If you are going to pivot and reposition the questions to fit your argument you will surely prove yourself right... You have added UK as I gave you an example of Austria were hunters were so concerned they killed the Lynx in the Trial ....

As said id suggest most deer hunters would welcome the reintroduction of the Lynx
I am glad you or the other hunters you know welcome the reintroduction Mark pity they can't also admit to the successful trials, but as shown it isn't the case with all as in Austria.

I think we should now knock this on the head as its obvious we will never agree on this subject ... but thanks for the Hunters perspective it was enlighting. I am sure there will be things we do agree on like Conservation of the countryside ... leaving hunting aside
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Old 7th November 2018, 14:43   #253 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

So nothing to back up " most Doctors have the hunting gene "

" Most doctors and pretty much all surgeons will have the hunter geen. Its a classic job for such people as is soldier, fireman, policeman. In my circle of hunters there are three doctors (ones an eye doctor but I think he may be a surgeon of sorts as well) and two surgeons. "

If you cannot verify will you correct please .

Steve
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Old 7th November 2018, 14:47   #254 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camden View Post
I am glad you or the other hunters you know welcome the reintroduction Mark pity they can't also admit to the successful trials, but as shown it isn't the case with all as in Austria.

I think we should now knock this on the head as its obvious we will never agree on this subject ... but thanks for the Hunters perspective it was enlighting. I am sure there will be things we do agree on like Conservation of the countryside ... leaving hunting aside

Again you twist a week argument to pretend its a strong one.

1/3rd of The triles were successful in the reintroduction of the lynx. They ARE NOT a success in terms of controlling deer populations to required cull levels. But obviously some reduction in deer numbers is of benefit. The German project introduced 14 lynx in 2000 and now its estimated there are 100. A great success but hardly enough significantly impact deer populations. In total 15 reintroduction triles have been carried out and there were 5 classified as a success in terms of the Lynx not the deer population.

Lloyds are supporting the trials as a charitable donation / advertising etc. Its part of their eco budget spending for image enhancement. I stand to be corrected if they decide to insure the full reintroduction of the lynx but as I keep saying this doesent adress the elephant in the room

THERS NOT ENOUGH SUITABLE WOODLANDS IN THE UK for significant reintroduction of the Lynx to a level that would in any way satisfy the cull requirements on Fallow Reds Roe and Muntjac


the other issues you may or may not have some grounds with, but this issue is insurmountable.

As a result, in the UK hunters will still be required for conservation but the Lynx may well be beneficial to the cull targets in remote areas where little or no hunting is carried out due to logistics.

Id suggest if you posted on the Stalking Directory you'd get strong support for the Lynx reintroduction from hunters and of course some decent from farmers.

https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/wor...-to-the-uk.pdf

If nothing else SOME hunters will look forward to the Hot Spot issue and no doubt will pay big money to shoot the Lynx that become obsessed with sheep

Personally I wouldn't unless it was a piece of land I was managing and the land owner instructed me to do it.

Last edited by Chasey; 7th November 2018 at 14:50..
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Old 7th November 2018, 15:02   #255 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

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Originally Posted by Akasya View Post
So nothing to back up " most Doctors have the hunting gene "

" Most doctors and pretty much all surgeons will have the hunter geen. Its a classic job for such people as is soldier, fireman, policeman. In my circle of hunters there are three doctors (ones an eye doctor but I think he may be a surgeon of sorts as well) and two surgeons. "

If you cannot verify will you correct please .

Steve

Annoyingly I cant find the actual paper on line but the survey was by Dr Kevin Dutton a psychologist at of Oxford university. It was referenced in an article which I read but I cant find it

ill keep looking and I am sure it will turn up on google eventually

I think I linked to it from here some time ago but ill keep digging

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...014.00740/full

And I can variefie that in my group of 20 hunters we have 3 doctors 2 surgeons (or 3 surgeons two doctors if the Eye doctor is also a surgeon?) We also have one Detective Inspector, three ex military and one active military close combat security but we dont see him so much as hes in Afghanistan at the moment. Oh and we had a fireman but hes left as his shift patterns dont suit our available staking days.

Last edited by Chasey; 7th November 2018 at 15:19..
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Old 7th November 2018, 16:08   #256 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasey View Post
Again you twist a week argument to pretend its a strong one.

1/3rd of The triles were successful in the reintroduction of the lynx. They ARE NOT a success in terms of controlling deer populations to required cull levels. But obviously some reduction in deer numbers is of benefit. The German project introduced 14 lynx in 2000 and now its estimated there are 100. A great success but hardly enough significantly impact deer populations. In total 15 reintroduction triles have been carried out and there were 5 classified as a success in terms of the Lynx not the deer population.

Lloyds are supporting the trials as a charitable donation / advertising etc. Its part of their eco budget spending for image enhancement. I stand to be corrected if they decide to insure the full reintroduction of the lynx but as I keep saying this doesent adress the elephant in the room

THERS NOT ENOUGH SUITABLE WOODLANDS IN THE UK for significant reintroduction of the Lynx to a level that would in any way satisfy the cull requirements on Fallow Reds Roe and Muntjac


the other issues you may or may not have some grounds with, but this issue is insurmountable.

As a result, in the UK hunters will still be required for conservation but the Lynx may well be beneficial to the cull targets in remote areas where little or no hunting is carried out due to logistics.

Id suggest if you posted on the Stalking Directory you'd get strong support for the Lynx reintroduction from hunters and of course some decent from farmers.

https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/wor...-to-the-uk.pdf
Twist ? where? I suggest you look up the word TRIAL it wasn't a full rollout so not expected to take the place of Lethal Culls in other areas ... but only in TRIAL areas where it was a success in culling the deer in that area eg Jura Mountains ....

Any twisting is surely yours? repositioning by adding UK , also the use of "preference of predation" when fact shows they do prey on REINDEER.

And on taxpayers paying compensation Chasey quote "It will cost the public by way of a policy fee"...... NOW. the pivot ...... Chasey quote " Lloyds are supporting the trials as a charitable donation / advertising" etc etc

So how can you claim that the taxpayer will be paying the compensation on sheep losses .... When in this trial they won't and you now admit you don't even know that the insurer's won't if there is a rollout ..[/B]

You are quoting and linking from the Sheep Association ... one of the opposers of Lynx re -introduction.

So we have to discount Dr Paul O'Donoghue and his vast experience?? The chief scientific advisor for the re-introduction of the Lynx ... who said
We've got an incredible team of ecologists, four wildlife vets and highly experienced reintroduction specialists ready to start work, with a combined 300 years of experience between them.


"This will be an exceptionally rigorous, scientifically-led reintroduction trial using cutting-edge technology to monitor these cats in stunning detail. Everything is in place to deliver a world-class project that will breathe life into Britain's dying forest ecosystems."

Having assessed all the science and research on lynx predation we’re very confident that sheep attacks will be rare, so if our support can help make a trial reintroduction practical it’s a great opportunity for us to do something really positive."

O'Donoghue added: "There's a perceived threat to sheep which has come largely from baseless National Sheep Association scaremongering,

the union has avoided every opportunity to engage with the project and seem to have no interest in their members benefitting from the extensive opportunities a reintroduction could bring.



And of course the Highly reputable Wildwood Trust with all their extensive experience would know nothing about what you perceive is the problem

THERS NOT ENOUGH SUITABLE WOODLANDS IN THE UK for significant reintroduction of the Lynx to a level that would in any way satisfy the cull requirements on Fallow Reds Roe and Muntjac

Wildwood Trust, has extensive experience in the conservation and reintroduction of protected species and managing large carnivores, as well as working closely with Government regulators, such as Natural England and DEFRA, developing conservation licensing systems for a range of threatened species such as water voles, dormice, red squirrels and European beaver.



Peter Smith, the director of Wildwood, said: “Our ecosystem desperately needs reintroductions like this; apex predators are critical for controlling species like deer which can overpopulate and cause serious damage to natural habitats.

“Lynx aren't the complete solution, but they're a keystone element in the construction of one. We're very happy to be making a big commitment of time, staff and resources to this project, and thoroughly believe the time is perfect for these shy animals to come back to the UK.”


They agree as I said before their reintroduction wouldn't be all and end all .....hence the need for contraception in areas if predators can't be used.

We will never agree you know? to far a bridge to cross from killing animals in hunting to conserving them, Mark. If you need the last word just say and I won't post a reply....


.

Last edited by Camden; 7th November 2018 at 16:25..
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Old 7th November 2018, 18:24   #257 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

Deer's have sent in the lobbyists under the guise that red meat is a no, no.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46122227
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Old 9th November 2018, 08:11   #258 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

The report mentions to only eat one portion of red meat per week.

Good job my pension is big enough to benefit by only buying one lot of red meat per week!

Maisie
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Old 9th November 2018, 08:21   #259 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

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...Good job my pension is big enough to benefit by only buying one lot of red meat per week!

Maisie
For shame Maisie, come visit us and you will well afford fresh road kill every night AND smoked pork fat on Fridays!
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Old 9th November 2018, 21:27   #260 (permalink)
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Re: American huntress proud to shoot Scottish Goats

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Originally Posted by 35pluschips View Post
Deer's have sent in the lobbyists under the guise that red meat is a no, no.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46122227
To e fair we should drastically reduce our dependence on dairy and red meet so I personally support this

Venison offers similar protein levels but considerably lower Cholesterol and lower calories than beef pork or lamb

Sadly there are not enough deer to replace the 150 -175,000 cattle we kill each month for meet.

Current cull figures of 350,000 per year equate to the tonnage of beef we consume in just one month

So in order to be environmentally friendly we would have to reduce our intake of beef by 88% and switch to venison


Lamb and Pork whilst still having an environmental impact, are far less of a problem than cattle

Increasing venison to current beef levels would require intensive farming and I am obviously against that

At the moment I have a 50/50 vegetarian to meet eating diet. We eat vegetarian at least three times a week which is made easier by the fact my Vegan daughter eats with us about three times a week. That said even when she doesent, we stick to tofu or straight veg dishes which we rather enjoy.

I haven't had beef since my last Steak in La Cassa restaurant on my last trip to Turkey

It was fantastic though
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