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Old 6th February 2020, 17:17   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

Guardian.jpg
The Foreign Office’s contorted language of Brexit is a smokescreen

"If a time traveller from the mid-20th century had suddenly arrived in London on Monday, they might have learned some alarming facts about Britain. In his first major speech since we left the EU, the prime minister eulogised the country’s “newly recaptured powers”, declared we were “re-emerging after decades of hibernation as a campaigner for global free trade”, and revealed we would “reach out to the rest of the Commonwealth” and “engage with Japan”. How had Britain isolated itself from free trade? Why had it been unable to do business with its international friends? What dastardly power had colonised the mighty UK?

The truth was, of course, more prosaic. The UK in fact pioneered the EU’s single market, the world’s deepest and most comprehensive transnational trade zone, and has now elected to replace it with commercial barriers. Japan signed a trade deal with that market in 2018. And the EU has engineered such a brake on Commonwealth trade that in 2018 Germany exported 125% more to India and 100% more to Australia than we do. The only cage to have imprisoned the UK is one of its own hubristic making…

The government’s campaign is not military but emotional, and not waged against the EU but the British people. The target and tactics are language itself…"

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...rdianOpinionUK
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Old 6th February 2020, 17:30   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

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Originally Posted by 35pluschips View Post
It hasn't stopped other European countries from purchasing the F35, nor some of our allies like Australia, Canada etc.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/06/22...re-taking-off/
Your right Chips, never said it has stopped the above.... there was me thinking Brexiteers were big on Sovereignty.. We will most likely follow suit if we have not already, as things are changing as we speak it ....... We have already lost the Galileo base in the falklands... ..

The countries taking this have lost the ability to have a Sovereign capable aircraft.... and are now reliant on the US and Lockheed Martin for the defence tech within the craft ....also the UK has fantastic history in aerospace tech and expertise ( don't no of the other Countries you quote ) which could be lost if we are not involved in the tech, with these experts knowledge going either to the US or EU or lost altogether not having a Sovereign capable jet .....not to mention the parts and build ,no guarantee or Sovereign control over the contract placement Lockheed Martin call..... and the pressure from Trumps America First policy .....

Last edited by Camden; 6th February 2020 at 17:35..
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Old 6th February 2020, 17:40   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

Sovereignty isn’t about building your own military aircraft, nor has it ever been. The F35 is one of the best state of the art stealth fighter jets & we the UK are part of it. Belgium recently got the verbals from the EU for ordering F35, could be the Belgium’s know how important it is to have the best for their pilots.

Interesting take from our own pilots in this short clip, training in the US. I think the F35 will outlast Trump.

https://www.f35.com/media/videos-det...er-jets-in-usa
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Old 6th February 2020, 17:56   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

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Originally Posted by 35pluschips View Post
Sovereignty isn’t about building your own military aircraft, nor has it ever been. The F35 is one of the best state of the art stealth fighter jets & we the UK are part of it. Belgium recently got the verbals from the EU for ordering F35, could be the Belgium’s know how important it is to have the best for their pilots.

Interesting take from our own pilots in this short clip, training in the US. I think the F35 will outlast Trump.

https://www.f35.com/media/videos-det...er-jets-in-usa
Good to see you are willing to give up on our great history in Aerospace technology for American, in doing so becoming reliant on the whim on the US and Lockheed Martin on contract choice than having our own part in a Sovereign choice ......... might even become the 51st state might stop our Aerospace expert brain drain when we give up on the Tech....

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Old 6th February 2020, 18:05   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

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Originally Posted by Camden View Post
Good to see you are willing to give up on our great history in Aerospace technology for American, in doing so becoming reliant on the whim on the US and Lockheed Martin on contract choice than having our own part in a Sovereign choice ......... might even become the 51st state might stop our Aerospace expert brain drain when we give up on the Tech....
Give up? I don’t think our involvement in the F35 just happened in referendum week, it’s been going on for years. Are you saying we shouldn’t be involved in it or even purchase any?
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Old 6th February 2020, 18:31   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

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Originally Posted by 35pluschips View Post
Give up? I don’t think our involvement in the F35 just happened in referendum week, it’s been going on for years. Are you saying we shouldn’t be involved in it or even purchase any?
I think there is nothing wrong with our participation in development of the F35 it is the primary aircraft of our biggest allies and some other Nato partner but the participation will never include defence Tech ... I also don't see a problem in purchase, we have done before but not as our sole supplier because of the no access to defence tech as that will cause hurt to our own Aerospace tech ambitions which was with our once EU partners ..

My gripe is that EU law says they don't share defence tech with non EU members and since Brexit breaks that link leaving us out on our own, without the deep pockets to fund a Sovereign capable jet fighter. So maybe making us reliant on the US or others etc etc and lose our brilliant history , knowledge, Tech and Aerospace experts to either the EU or US and have no Sovereign control over contract placement ....All of which I have said before.

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Old 6th February 2020, 18:43   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

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Originally Posted by Camden View Post
I think there is nothing wrong with participation in development of the F35 it is the primary aircraft of our biggest allies and some other Nato partner but the participation will never include defence Tech ... I also don't see a problem in purchase, we have done before but not as our sole supplier as that will cause hurt to our own Aerospace tech ambitions which was with our once EU partners ..

My gripe is that EU law says they don't share defence tech with non EU members and since Brexit breaks that link leaving us out on our own, without the deep pockets to fund a Sovereign capable jet fighter. So maybe making us reliant on the US or others etc etc and lose the brilliant history knowledge, Tech and experts to either the EU or US and have no Sovereign control over contract placement ....All of which I have said before.
We certainly will not lose the knowledge, we do have our own boffins. I will say this though, once our pilots are flying ANY military plane with the RAF logo, that is sovereignty. We will not have to ask the US if we can fly them or not. You don’t buy a car and then ask the garage owner when you can use it lol
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Old 6th February 2020, 18:54   #38 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

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Originally Posted by 35pluschips View Post
We certainly will not lose the knowledge, we do have our own boffins. I will say this though, once our pilots are flying ANY military plane with the RAF logo, that is sovereignty. We will not have to ask the US if we can fly them or not. You don’t buy a car and then ask the garage owner when you can use it lol
We have our own Boffins???? ..I will stop here...... as I am talking of a UK Aerospace Industry of £38 billion and this circular debate is going nowhere.
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Old 6th February 2020, 18:56   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

And if your boffins have no work they will go overseas.
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Old 6th February 2020, 19:02   #40 (permalink)
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Re: Brexit going forward

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And if your boffins have no work they will go overseas.
Your living in the past, the internet is a great saver in both time & travel.
Cancer specialists in the Queen Elizabeth Hospital here were liaising with their counterparts in America on a daily basis when my brother was being treated.
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