Guz1

Thanks for telling me g&t. The man in the Belediye told me that it would cost each household about 200 or 300 ytl to get whatever it takes for a Kat Mulkiyeti title deed (50 houses on our site). That was last year, of course. God knows what it might cost this year.

It really is very hard to get any clear information about this.

lolly

Hi Maria,
Yep, thats what i have been told when i wanted to change mine last year. Was told best to wait until all the houses on our sitesi had took habitation first, then its cheaper to apply for kat mulkiyeti Tapu altogether rather than individually.
I am surprised that with all the Agents around that someone hasnt come along with this information already!
Cheers Lorraine.

Guz1

Thank you Lorraine. I have a feeling that the agents who know the answers aren't willing to share lest they be helping the competition who don't know and won't admit their ignorance of what should be fundamental knowledge in their line of work.

tintagel

Future buyers should I think, have the 'Habitation/Living certificate' included in the terms of their contracts, thus shifting the onus back where it should be, with the developer.

Sadly, it doesn't help those of us that already have property headaches

Guz1

I agree, Tintagel. Trouble is we already having the Use of Building Permit which some refer to as the Habitation Certificate, but that isn't enough and as long as there is ambiguity about this issue people will go on buying in the mistaken belief that once they have the Use of Building Permit all the I's are dotted and the T's crossed.

With the current slowdown in the property market there will be lots of people buying on sites that may not be finished for years. They, like us, won't be aware that they will be paying way over the odds for electricity until the site has been signed off by the Council. They probably won't be aware, either, that if they put their houses on the market prospective buyers won't qualify for a Turkish mortgage unless the house has a Kat Mulkiyeti tapu. Developers and Emlaks might get some short term gain from withholding such information from buyers but in the long term this kind of hassle only serves to diminish the reputation of Turkey's property market.

Dalaman Deli

Hi Guz. Sorry didn't come back to you yesterday, we were busy sorting out a problem at the Council offices. (We manage properties for clients and went to pay the first part of this year's emlak vergisi (house tax) yesterday, only to be told that one of the properties has outstanding tax prior to 2002! Our clients didn't buy through us, but all the taxes have been paid since 2002 and nothing has been said before. As you can imagine, it came as a bit of a shock. Still ongoing and we will take it up again on Monday. Every day here brings a new surprise!)

Anyway, firstly I should say that our area of the coast is very different to yours and our work is mainly with individual villas and small complexes, so I do not have the experience of dealing with big sites like yours. I am still learning the business, which is hindered by the language problems, so it is my husband and his brother who deal with the mechanics of the tapu transfer. However, what I can say is that all our clients have a notarized contract in both English and Turkish which covers everything including the issue of the Tapu and the habitation license and we are lucky in that the majority of our sales have been of completed villas or apartment complexes, so the issue of the habitation licenses have not been a problem. For those properties which are incomplete and where the habitation licenses haven't been issued yet, I hold a file of copy tapus at the Kat İrtifakı stage and regularly check with developers to see if the site has been completed and the Yapı Kulllanma İzni issued. Once it is we ensure that Tapu's are upgraded. Sometimes the client pays for this and sometimes it is the developer, it depends what was agreed at the contract stage.

Now, I must admit that you have completely thrown me by saying that the Oturma izini/ruhsat is different than the Yapı Kullanma İzini! I have spoken again to my husband today and he says that in all of the new build sales we have been involved in, it is the Yapı Kullanma İzini that has been required to update the Tapu from Kat İrtifakı to Kat Mülkiyeti.

Sorry I can't be of further help to you Maria, but I can tell you one thing. Our bit of the country might not be as popular as yours and we may not sell as much property over here, but I am glad I am working here and not over there!

Hope someone else we be along with more useful info.

Ruth

lolly

Hi,
I am of the understanding that the Yapu Kullanma IS the Ruhsat, just some people use different interpretations of it. They are the same document (unless someone knows different).
The question still remains though, how many of you out there have done the process of upgrading their Tapu's and more importantly, what was the cost and was it Murdurglu office or Tapu office that issues Mulkiyeti Tapu? Perhaps someone can answer and shed some light, its all very intriguing isnt it! Four years later and still things to learn along the way..heheee..
Cheers
Lorraine.

Guz1

Dalaman Deli,

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to reply. I appreciate that this is probably the time of year when things start to get hectic for agents, so all credit to you for being the only emlak on the forum to even bother trying to throw some light on this vexed subject.

With Dalaman being relatively new to the building boom, things might be different there. When we bought our house things were probably different in the Kusadasi area too and this Mulkiyeti business could have been just a formality. Unfortunately for us, it isn't a mere formality any more. The most frustrating part is that the matter is out of our hands. We can't just go to the Tapu office, pay our few hundred lira and come out with a tick in all the right boxes. It seems that we must wait until all our neighbours are ready to apply whilst hoping that they haven't any unpaid debts to the Belediye that might prevent them getting their Kullanma. By Kusadasi standards, ours is not a big site. I shudder to think how long we would have to wait if we were on a site with hundreds of houses/apartments.

We (and I'm sure others) knew nothing about this Kat Mulkiyeti business prior to reading about it on this forum. Nor did we know that there is more than one system for supplying and charging for electricity. Although I know I'm at fault for not doing my research, I don't think it would ever have occurred to me that I could receive what is, effectively, a second class title deed.

If it hadn't been for this forum I would be as ignorant now as I was 4 years ago. I'm very grateful to you and the other emlaks and, indeed, lots of forum members who take the trouble to share their knowledge which has been invaluable to me and, no doubt, many others.

tintagel

Guz, you're absolutely right of course about the timescale of 'new builds' but, if 'ALL' of these 'prickly & very costly points' were added into Contracts, I can't help but think that 'Eventually' it would lead to the Building Industry behaving more responsibly and to some extent 'Self Regulating' which is a major concern especially given the poor protection Turkish Law currently affords Foreign Buyers.

It would also, I think, give the Re-sale market a much needed boost. At present the situation is ludicrous beyond belief, with so many (believable) promises of 'Penalties & Guarantee's' of wonderful compensation packages; should the developer fail to meet their contractual agreements.

Unfortunately it's only When it goes wrong....... that the buyer finds out that Turkish Law offers them little (if any) protection agianst this type of Fraud & that recourse is available through the Civil Courts.... there starts the Very long, expensive & very stressful Legal trip! Which is another veritable mine field, per se!!