Turkish Army Brought To Heel?

ceemac · 1st July 2009, 16:25

A few days ago the Turkish parliament introduced a law that made it possible to prosecute military personnel in a civilian court for crimes committed during peacetime (which would include plotting against the government)

This comes following a plot to overthrow the AKP government and the Gulen movement, apparently signed by an army officer.

The law has yet to be passed though (needs to be approved by President Gul) and the opposition party are against it as they say it violates the Turkish constitution.

I think a true democracy would not have it's armed forces waiting in the wings to seize power if a government was not to their liking so it'll be interesting to see the outcome.

C

pebble · 1st July 2009, 16:33

hmmmmm looks like things are heating up............

shirleyanntr · 1st July 2009, 17:01

hi Pebs, nice to see you are still in debating mode, keeps your mind occupied...i agree with you things are hotting up.
although i have to disagree with some of Craigs appraisal of the situation. The Military here are the protectors of democracy even though to us that may seem like a contradiction in terms.
When the Military were given these powers it was with the knowledge that democracy was new and transient and there were many forces against it. Today those forces are still around and in my opinion gaining ground, the majority of people trust the Military more than they do the governments that come and go.

RIK · 1st July 2009, 17:53

Hi Shirley.I have to agree with you.Without the military I suspect that we would not be here.

Ian

ceemac · 1st July 2009, 23:38

It doesn't seem compatable with democracy though is all I'm saying.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing but the EU will probably not allow a member state to have this 'arrangement'.

C

Yildez · 2nd July 2009, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceemac

It doesn't seem compatable with democracy though is all I'm saying.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing but the EU will probably not allow a member state to have this 'arrangement'.

C

Good!!

immac · 2nd July 2009, 08:05

Turkey either wants a democracy, or it does not. A state that has the military deciding what is OK and what is not, is not a democracy. The military in any democracy should be accountable to the elected representatives of the people, and restrict themselves to things military within that framework.
Ian

pebble · 2nd July 2009, 08:12

The generals are the watchdog of Turkey's democracy. They step in when needed. I have always been in favor of them taking control. They rarely overstep their bounderies, in the past, when they have stepped in, they have quickly brought things to the point needed for the government or newly elected government to turn things around.
Turkey was set up with this "balance and checks" system for a reason. Turkey was committed to keep religion and state separate, in this case, with our present government, it has all gone awry, and the generals should have stepped before this. But the present religious government has been behind the scenes doing everything to strip the military. The whole Ergenekon scandal is just a scratch of the surface.

Shirley, you can explain it better, but we are of a like mind, I know you know what I am trying to say, I just cant seem to make sense of my words to formulate it in a way to make it understood.
But we know why this check/balance system is in place. explain it, most foreigners just dont understand that the generals are our friends....not our enemy,. they may seem like it, but they are the protector of Turkey's democacry.

sorry to ramble

immac · 2nd July 2009, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by pebble

The generals are the watchdog of Turkey's democracy. They step in when needed. I have always been in favor of them taking control. They rarely overstep their bounderies,
But we know why this check/balance system is in place. explain it, most foreigners just dont understand that the generals are our friends....not our enemy,. they may seem like it, but they are the protector of Turkey's democacry.

This is, of course, rubbish. What you are demonstrating is a complete lack of understanding of the meaning of "democracy". What you are advocating is a military state that allows the elected body to play at being in control.

Ian

saoirse · 2nd July 2009, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by immac

Turkey either wants a democracy, or it does not. A state that has the military deciding what is OK and what is not, is not a democracy. The military in any democracy should be accountable to the elected representatives of the people, and restrict themselves to things military within that framework.
Ian

99% of the time I think what you are saying on this is true. However if it were to be a choice between an extremist regime, or the military guarenteeing more freedom, surely theres maybe a case for their intervention. Very difficult subject as its not black and white

To quote a hero of mine Lenin-...."It is true that liberty is precious , so precious that it must be carefully rationed"